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KR vs NGC, when to use which?

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RedGreen

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I'm building a Black Hole Striped Bass Special 11' 1-6 ounce blank, and I'm unsure as to whether I should build it with a KR guidetrain or a NGC one.

 

I'm unsure because I plan to run at least 40# braid through this rod, and up to 50-65#. The reels I plan to mate to this rod will be an Okuma Makaira 10k (to be acquired late summer/early fall) with 50-65# braid, and a shimano spheros sw 10k with 40# braid (for immediate use, and where I'd need more casting distance to make my presentation).

 

I'm aware of the differences between both guidetrain concepts, so far all the spinning rods I've built have been KR builds and I have nothing but love for that layout. Thing is, they've all been using 30# or less braid, and it seems to me that above this point the difference between KR and NGC is more of a wash, and NGC is more often used.

 

Is it possible to build a rod that will handle both these reel/line setups well, and which guidetrain concept would best match it?

 

More generally, when do you go with NGC layouts over a KR layout?

 

I've been searching around for a while now, and haven't found a really clear answer on this topic.

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Going forward, I would probably only build a RV/KR set up. I haven't found a build where it won't work. Perhaps with bigger reels (wider spool diameter) it might get tough.

 

Both set-ups are good. I think it comes down to personal preference.

ASMFC - Destroying public resources and fisheries one stock at a time since 1942.

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You are not going to get a whole lot of 65lb braid on the Makaira 10k, I estimate around 250yds based on realistic dia of around 0.46mm / 0.018". Regardless of layout, the dia alone will limit casting performance in that the spool will empty very quickly.

Just wondering why so heavy? Big Geets? Hit and hold?

Edited by ZAFisher
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49 mins ago, ZAFisher said:

You are not going to get a whole lot of 65lb braid on the Makaira 10k, I estimate around 250yds based on realistic dia of around 0.46mm / 0.018". Regardless of layout, the dia alone will limit casting performance in that the spool will empty very quickly.

Just wondering why so heavy? Big Geets? Hit and hold?

I see where you're coming from, I chose heavier braid because I was going off a report from someone who owned a makaira 10K and said they got 550 yards of 50lb braid on it. Was thinking heavier line because I'm unsure if 40lb braid will be sufficient for bridge and inlet Tarpon at night. Was planning to use as much drag as I can handle in these areas to keep the fight short and minimize fish mortality.

 

If 40lb will do the job that's fantastic. I'd like to use as light a line as I can get away with. Based on Okuma's website I calculate I can get around 400 yards 40lb suffix 832, but reports on capacity conflict with that it seems.

 

Say I wanted to go with 50 or 65lb anyways, am I losing anything going with an NGC layout at that point or should I stick with KR while possible? I'm most interested in knowing at what point the difference in performance is negligible or NGC behaves better than KR.

Edited by RedGreen
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Red,

 

If you spool up with something like Maxcuattro #65, you should get something around 330-350 yards on the 10k Makaira.

Maxcuatro 65 is thinner at 0.40mm ABS 75lb compared to say

1. Power Pro Super Slick #65 0.45mm ABS 88lb

2. Spiderwire Stealth  #65 0.45mm ABS 87lb

 

Swings and roundabouts you know.

 

You are a flyfisher, you know how to drop the rod and use the butt section to pull a fish and release the applied load quickly when you need to.

 

It depends on your requirements, more distance - use a genuinely thinner line.

The Makaira will cope with 20lb Superslick (ABS #35lb-ish) or similar, without throwing a hissy-fit 'cause the line is too thin.

 

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Basically use the smallest guides you can, so KR when you can. The NGC gives you a little versatility regarding your reels and stripper guide placement. You can get the larger guide closer to the reel, may be preferred of needed depending on the rods action. Bottom line is that both work like Drew C said. I know Drew and have fished with him he came to his conclusion by building rods and fishing them, then building more and trying new things and fishing those and then......  In other words his info has been tested. Best thing you can do is take what info you get here and test different things yourself and see what suits you best

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14 hours ago, mtfallon88 said:

Following this one as I plan to build the same blank this spring and plan on using RV/KR guides with either a VS200 or 250 (more likely the latter). I haven't got my hands on the blank yet, what are your initial thoughts?

It's my first real surf rod blank, while I have used some in the past. It feels great to me. Very responsive and has unquestionably a lot of power down low. Definitely less of a moderate and more of a faster taper. 1 ounce seems like it might be a bit light for it but that was expected given it's upper limits. Ferrule fits great. Can't say too much else until I've built it or test cast it.

 

Given the input from everyone on the thread I'll probably go KR concept for this build as I thoroughly enjoy how well my KR builds have treated me thus far, and it seems there's really no functional reason to step up to the larger rings and less aggressive reduction train of the NGC concept.

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Been taking ZAs' advice on my spinning rods for the past 5-6 years & lately with Fuji FazLite guides.

They are a bit of a pain to wrap since the feet are not to be filed & there seem to be environmental concerns over Fujis' corrosion control process.

Also been using Billy 40s' epoxy mix - clear as a bell & easy to work with.

 

All we have to do is get ZA over to the dark side of the Two Hand Crew ...

Morone Saxatilis... God put them in the Surf to take them, not in the freaking boat!

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  • 1 month later...

If that's the case I'll be very happy to support it by buying the CC finish where I need it. Though personally I have not seen much of an improvement in corrosion resistance over typical black frames. I'm trying standard stainless for this build as a control to get a better picture of what's happening.

 

Right now the plan is to go RV25 to KL12H, KL7M, and size 7 running guides to the tip with 50lb 832 and an okuma makaira 10000. I just finished the handle today and will report on how the whole system works when it's finished. I'll have the reel likely end of April/beginning of May. I suspect it will perform splendidly as I've had nothing but great experiences with KR, it's currently my go-to layout for spinning rods using braid.

Edited by RedGreen
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