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oax

AR Pistols - Anyone Got One?

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Was at a gun show yesterday and the various AR platforms dominated as usual but this time I saw a lot of AR pistols on display.  Springfield Armory Saint, CZ Scorpions and a number of other models from various manufacturers, 7.5” and 10.5” barrels seemed most common.  Never really looked at them close until yesterday but thought they were pretty cool.  Wondered if anyone here has one, what your primary use for it is and how you like it.

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I can't help with long term ownership but I've been able to fire several brands at the range thru friends or the armorer.  Right to the point...why?  The advantage of a short overall length is completely negated by the noise.  God in heaven you haven't heard loud until you fire one off even wearing muffs and ear plugs.  Even outdoors they'll get the attention of everyone at the line.

 

Neat concept but without a suppressor hanging off the end I can't see the practicality and that's, IMHO, what they were designed for.

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All my AR's that I've made were made as Pistols , Then later changed to long guns , Reason being under federal law you can't make a Rifle into a Handgun but you can make a Handgun into a Rifle .

I do that so if I wanted one later it's not a big deal . And with arm braces AR handguns are more comfortable in close quarters . Yes they are LOUD but I do have a suppressor , But a 7.5' barrel in 9mm. without a suppressor is very do able . 556mm you have a very big loss of performance with a shorter barrel so than it's all about the LOUD factor , Years ago I had the chance to shoot a HK 51

it is a 13' barrel version of the HK 91or G3 308/762 cal . I had earmuffs and plugs and only managed 5 shots , I hurt to shoot it . The makers will make them so you have Wow factor for sales

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18 hours ago, oax said:

 

Was at a gun show yesterday and the various AR platforms dominated as usual but this time I saw a lot of AR pistols on display.  Springfield Armory Saint, CZ Scorpions and a number of other models from various manufacturers, 7.5” and 10.5” barrels seemed most common.  Never really looked at them close until yesterday but thought they were pretty cool.  Wondered if anyone here has one, what your primary use for it is and how you like it.

This what you're talking about?  I never considered one of these before.  Definitely cool looking.    

cz-usa-cz-scorpion-evo-3-s1-pistol-1024×682

 

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13 hours ago, mako20ft said:

I can't help with long term ownership but I've been able to fire several brands at the range thru friends or the armorer.  Right to the point...why?  The advantage of a short overall length is completely negated by the noise.  God in heaven you haven't heard loud until you fire one off even wearing muffs and ear plugs.  Even outdoors they'll get the attention of everyone at the line.

 

Neat concept but without a suppressor hanging off the end I can't see the practicality and that's, IMHO, what they were designed for.

7 hours ago, jolly mon said:

All my AR's that I've made were made as Pistols , Then later changed to long guns , Reason being under federal law you can't make a Rifle into a Handgun but you can make a Handgun into a Rifle .

I do that so if I wanted one later it's not a big deal . And with arm braces AR handguns are more comfortable in close quarters . Yes they are LOUD but I do have a suppressor , But a 7.5' barrel in 9mm. without a suppressor is very do able . 556mm you have a very big loss of performance with a shorter barrel so than it's all about the LOUD factor , Years ago I had the chance to shoot a HK 51

it is a 13' barrel version of the HK 91or G3 308/762 cal . I had earmuffs and plugs and only managed 5 shots , I hurt to shoot it . The makers will make them so you have Wow factor for sales

 

5 hours ago, Heron25 said:

This what you're talking about?  I never considered one of these before.  Definitely cool looking.    

cz-usa-cz-scorpion-evo-3-s1-pistol-1024×682

 

 

Mako and Jolly Mon thanks for the insights on this.  Only remember seeing one here and there at past shows and never really looked at them before but man they were all over this show big time and you couldn’t help but notice them.  Most were .300 blackout or 5.56 with a few 9mm in the mix and had the arm brace which I like.  Sounds like 9mm would be the way to go as would fitting a suppressor.  I see you get a can that actually fits over the barrel and under the hand guards which would be really cool.  

 

Wondering if these are just used for SD/HD like any other AR or is there some new form of competition driving the market for them?  Have an almost new RRA complete upper sitting around that maybe I’ll look into turning into one of these down the road along the required "dedicated" lower.  Be an interesting project and will likely end uo costing some $$$ but what the heck.  Will definitely need to do some further research on the subject with so many variables on how to put one together.  

 

Heron, yes tha's right along the lines of what we’re discussing here, I’ll add a few more pics below.  Springfield Armory has several models on their site as does Ruger, Daniel Defense and CZ if you care to take a look.  Some are SBR and some are pistols.  

 

 

thumb2.jpg.aa2d14bdc4c9d68b7d553d90008f4b83.jpgthumb-1.jpg.6ef24f01d309f0fd46bdb891e67f9724.jpg pix992519237.jpg.52367e52411058d878beb9f696eda6dc.jpg

 

pix922923868.jpg.4738fd6da0fe9659ebce7989f3f9b629.jpg

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5.56 so negligible.  The one Daniel Defense I fired in 9mm (can't be positive on the manufacturer) was super manageable as well

 

Oh, and not to beat it into the ground but I cannot emphasize just how dam loud the 5.56 is in a pistol length barrel...just saying.

Edited by mako20ft

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I'm not law enforcement and ain't shooting in close quarters. I don't see it as something I need. If it has a neat factor for some than go for it. 

But I have no desire to fire a rifle round in a small package. The recoil, the muzzle blast, muzzle flash, and noise would make it not fun. 

If I were to go that route I'd opt for a pistol round in the AR platform. 

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Basically its an easy way to own a SBR without the paperwork using the "wrist/arm brace".  I have shot a few...didn't really do anything for me.  But people like them and there is a market for them......now..a little interested in the new H&K SP5 with the folding brace.  Had the MP5's which was a excellent rifle until we switched to the M4's.

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I built this one a few years back. Short of a suppressor, I strongly urge installing a linear compensator. Makes a YUGE difference

07B4ACA8-5D80-4710-B7FC-5A4469830A8B.jpeg

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On 1/15/2020 at 10:49 PM, Otony said:

I built this one a few years back. Short of a suppressor, I strongly urge installing a linear compensator. Makes a YUGE difference

07B4ACA8-5D80-4710-B7FC-5A4469830A8B.jpeg

 

Cool piece of hardware you have there; it's really something how people build and customize these things.  Since first posting I've looked into this a bit more and found (as several noted here) the consensus seems to be 5.56 is crazy loud with the short barrels and 9mm may be a better choice.  Now the CZ Scorpion has caught my eye and I'm thinking of going that route with their pistol version.  

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34 mins ago, oax said:

 

Cool piece of hardware you have there; it's really something how people build and customize these things.  Since first posting I've looked into this a bit more and found (as several noted here) the consensus seems to be 5.56 is crazy loud with the short barrels and 9mm may be a better choice.  Now the CZ Scorpion has caught my eye and I'm thinking of going that route with their pistol version.  

That particular pistol has a 10.5” White Oak barrel, but I would have gladly built it with a 12” barrel if such were available at the time.

 

It also has a Clark carbon fiber forend that has had a short rail section added on to mount the front sight. At the time I built it, that was the longest pistol buffer tube I could find, to which I added a rubber foot/tip from a chair. It ends up having a length of pull just a bit longer than a fully collapsed carbine stock. This was built before any sort of “arm brace” existed, and since it works it will stay as it is. I have changed the grip out for one that is more vertical, because it handles better that way.

 

I agree pretty strongly that the 5.56 cartridge isn’t the best choice for a short barrel, but when this was assembled, building a 9mm AR is any configuration meant magazine well adapters and Colt/Uzi mags, which was a route I was unwilling to pursue.

 

Early last year I bought a factory built Palmetto State Armory 9mm AR pistol that came equipped with an arm brace. It is designed to utilize double stack Glock mags, and any will fit from the shortest (G26) to the longest (G18). It runs perfectly with Korean KCI magazines, so that’s an advantage, but with sights, flashlight, and a Romeo red dot it ends up being considerably heavier than my 5.56 pistol. Still a crazy amount of fun though.....but I had a linear compensator waiting for it before it arrived. The barrel may be twice as long as most pistols, but the muzzle isn’t out at arms length like a pistol, so you still need help taming it. If I get the urge, I may change out the forend for carbon fiber, and lose the flashlight.

 

If you are interested in an AR pistol that carries a bit more oomph, the .300 Blackout tends to run a little better in a shorty configuration than the 5.56, and is a bit milder in terms of muzzle flash. It still wants a linear compensator or suppressor, don’t kid yourself.

Edited by Otony

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3 hours ago, fishweewee said:

:laugh:
 

12.5 inch barrels + VFG + SBA3 pistol braces
 

non-NFA (if yer gonna do this the VFG is mandatory per ATF)

Quote from the Richmond thread...

 

FWW, could you please explain this?  Are you saying you NEED a VFG with 12.5 barrel?  Thanks!

 

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2 hours ago, GoBow said:

Quote from the Richmond thread...

 

FWW, could you please explain this?  Are you saying you NEED a VFG with 12.5 barrel?  Thanks!

 

The 12.5 barrel and a Pistol Brace on a pistol AR is fine , You put a VFG ( vertical front grip ) you have made a AOW ( Any Other Wepon) and that requires a NFA tax stamp , That's because a handgun my only have one handgrip ,

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