HL

Mike, Mike, Mike What day it is?? Hey Mike O.

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It's the day I went back to a 2 hander - well almost.

What precipitated this miracle you ask!  You know that 99% of my Cape fishing is with a Wulff Bermuda Triangle SHORT Floater.

Well I was going through my line cabinet and noticed I had a new-in-box #14 Wulff BT Short floater. I can only think that I had a 2 hander in mind when I ordered it.  It is 566 grains - your sweet spot for your 12'9" rod.

Anyway - I put a leader on it - cut off 15' of the 105'  to fit it on my reel and had it out on my beach this morning.  VERY slight onshore breeze.

The rod is a 12'6" CTS DQ #11 that I had CTS build me as a custom one-off. It's technically a Spey taper -but at a #11 is much more powerful than the usual Spey rod - not as powerful as your 12'9" - but I don't intend to stand in a surf any longer casting into 25 mph winds..  

The rod easily tossed the 90' line and the 10' leader into the backing and laid it out straight as an arrow.

 

I'll take it to the Cape this year to fool with it.

BTW - even though you do not like Short heads - you should really consider this line for yourself.  566 grains is perfect for your rod - and it's integrated - so easier to use than a Skagit head.

Regards.

Herb

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Herb,   

 

Thanks for posting.  I have 2 of Mike's 12'9" rods (love them) and have never considered the Wulff lines.   I prefer a little more grains than Mike on his 12'9" rod.  Do you happen to know the grains of Wulffs #15 for this line?  Might be a nice option for me going forward.

 

HT

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Thanks Herb,

 

Like that the Wulff is an integrated line as opposed to what I've been using of late.   Seeing you are familiar with Mike's 12'9" blank do you think the Wulff regular Triangle Taper (short forward taper of 30 feet, and a 75’ running line),  might actually be a better fit than the Wulff SHORT, which is only about 24' ?    Seeing you have yet to try this with any significant wind with Mike's blank I've found about 3X the length of the rod to be a good head length and wondering if the SHORT at 24' will have a tendency to dump when fishing Cape winds, which typically can run 10+ on any given day. 

 

Thx,

HT

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HT

The plain 30' head floater only goes up to #12.

The SHORT head, in spite of what the web site says, is not 24' In their heavier lines. 

I'm out now and can't check - but I'm pretty sure the #14 head is 29'. Heads get longer as line/gr wt goes up.

If you get used to short heads - they don't dump all that much - if at all.

Dont try to carry too much line in the air.

Get the whole head out - shoot 5-6' of line on back cast and let her rip.

Make sure you use 60# butt for half the leader length. 

Don't fool around with straight 20# or 40#.

Herb

Edited by HL

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Posted (edited) · Report post

I truly enjoy when you guys discuss TH rods.  The amount of knowledge and experience makes for great reading. 
TH is something I have not crossed into yet, I often consider but just haven’t made the leap.
Also with the state of the fishery I am not sure if it is necessary that I go that path.

Edited by NoVisibleLeader

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40 mins ago, NoVisibleLeader said:

I truly enjoy when you guys discuss TH rods.  The amount of knowledge and experience makes for great reading. 
TH is something I have not crossed into yet, I often consider but just haven’t made the leap.
Also with the state of the fishery I am not sure if it is necessary that I go that path.

 

Hey Visible,

 

State of the fishery is definitely on the decline based on my limited experience over the last 3 or 4 years but it's still fun and there's still fish to catch and a TH'r is a great way to fish if you like fishing the beach and not having to worry about how the wind is going to impact where you want to fish.   Sure with a lighter SH you can usually find more FF friendly spots to keep fishing but the beauty of the TH rod allows us to fish in those conditions where a lot of the SH guys are calling it quits where you may be fishing in spots that are likely to hold fish.

 

HT

 

 

 

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HT,

 

The Rio Levithan 500 grain, 26' sink lines have been decent on the Thomas and Thomas 11'2" 12wt.  The 70lb core allows me to go straight 40-50lb leader which has been a real boon fighting fish in boulder fields with very heavy sweep and rocky inlets with fast current.  I use 80lb gel spun backing.  Almost had a new PB in the 45-47" class but lost it during landing with leader in hand which was a very low moment of the season.  But with a lighter setup I never would have even got that leader to hand.

 

Punches through wind very well and sits down in trough in big surf.  I found using it with @RedGreen foul free hollow flies allowed me to fish some nasty surf conditions in the dark effectively.  

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Yes HT the thrill of catching a fish will always outweigh the possibility of not in my book if that makes sense, and the state of the fishery has yet to keep me off the water when I get the chance to go.

 

Herb what is the reason for a heavy butt, fly turnover ? And what knot is preferred when attaching a heavy butt to the fly line.

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Yes - turnover.

And don't forget - we're talking a 556 grain line.

I always use a nail knot if the core can handle it.

You want a braided core so the coating doesn't peel off the core. 

Herb

 

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On 11/30/2019 at 7:00 PM, The Graveyard Shift said:

HT,

 

The Rio Levithan 500 grain, 26' sink lines have been decent on the Thomas and Thomas 11'2" 12wt.  The 70lb core allows me to go straight 40-50lb leader which has been a real boon fighting fish in boulder fields with very heavy sweep and rocky inlets with fast current.  I use 80lb gel spun backing.  Almost had a new PB in the 45-47" class but lost it during landing with leader in hand which was a very low moment of the season.  But with a lighter setup I never would have even got that leader to hand.

 

Punches through wind very well and sits down in trough in big surf.  I found using it with @RedGreen foul free hollow flies allowed me to fish some nasty surf conditions in the dark effectively.  

 

Thanks Dan,     I see RIO has this in a 600 grain which would probably suit Mike's blank a little better, at least for me.    Never fished a sinking line though mostly just intermediates so far.   I really should give one a try next spring though the $99 price tag for me is a tough sell considering I might not want to go this route.

 

HT

 

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On 11/30/2019 at 7:00 PM, The Graveyard Shift said:

HT,

 

The Rio Levithan 500 grain, 26' sink lines have been decent on the Thomas and Thomas 11'2" 12wt.  The 70lb core allows me to go straight 40-50lb leader which has been a real boon fighting fish in boulder fields with very heavy sweep and rocky inlets with fast current.  I use 80lb gel spun backing.  Almost had a new PB in the 45-47" class but lost it during landing with leader in hand which was a very low moment of the season.  But with a lighter setup I never would have even got that leader to hand.

 

Punches through wind very well and sits down in trough in big surf.  I found using it with @RedGreen foul free hollow flies allowed me to fish some nasty surf conditions in the dark effectively.  

 

 

Dan,

 

You mentioned using RedGreen's Worm Hollow with this sink line.   In his original thread you mentioned in fast current it tended to ride pretty high in the water column.    Were you able to "tune" with lead wire and shrink tubing like you proposed ?    Also, how was your hookup ratio with this design?   Looking to possibly tie some up during my winter tying for spring.   Thanks,

 

HillTop

 

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1 hour ago, HillTop said:

 

Thanks Dan,     I see RIO has this in a 600 grain which would probably suit Mike's blank a little better, at least for me.    Never fished a sinking line though mostly just intermediates so far.   I really should give one a try next spring though the $99 price tag for me is a tough sell considering I might not want to go this route.

 

HT

 

My general take away this year is sinking head is best option for large flies 80% of time in the salt. Its better at  overcoming their air resistance and slower sink rate.  The levithan is a bit on faster sink rate.  I would say 5 ips is best general purpose sink line.  9ips for the levithan was bit faster than I wanted in areas that were shallower 1-4' and had rocks.  

 

 My general take after a couple

seasons is I prefer floating and 5ips sink heads.  9ips for inlets exclusively.  I only use intermediates in boulder fields with flies that float as a niche tactic.  But that is my personal preference not gospel.  Also at night I hated anything other than full integrated lines because the loop to loop connection hitting rod tip feels like a strike.  it always catches me off guard so I wanted to eliminate that friction point from my retrieve.  I always fish my fly to my feet with the strikes at super close range many a time.

 

If you are okay with a core strength of 30lbs there are a lot of good options out there with 600 grain sinking heads.

 

 

Edited by The Graveyard Shift

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37 mins ago, HillTop said:

 

 

Dan,

 

You mentioned using RedGreen's Worm Hollow with this sink line.   In his original thread you mentioned in fast current it tended to ride pretty high in the water column.    Were you able to "tune" with lead wire and shrink tubing like you proposed ?    Also, how was your hookup ratio with this design?   Looking to possibly tie some up during my winter tying for spring.   Thanks,

 

HillTop

 

So as with all flies that are over 8" long and have a front hook placement you will have a lot of missed strikes.  On a swing your miss percentage is much lower, but on a stripped retrieve its very high.  These are generally fish under 30".  Reds flies had 13 fish total landed all season according to my log.  None were under 26" and largest was 33".  It drew a lot more strikes that I failed to convert which I don't log, but my guess would be 40 hits or so that it failed to convert so a 25% conversion rate.  The flies I fished were 10 and 12 inches long.  My buddy used one of the smaller ones and had a much higher conversion rate due to smaller length profile.

 

My take on if you want to throw a big fly and catch a lot of fish use a 40mm shank then the hook in a 8-9"

profile.  I had a double hooked 9" bucktail gamechanger I got from Nightmare musky it landed the most fish of all my large flies this season.  Its also the only large fly that caught a lot of fish 18-23" all of which came on the rear hook 5" into the patterns overall 9" length.

 

Red's fly was tunable  by adding lead wire wraps and uv resin to shank.  The fly is almost impossible to snag and sheds weeds exceptionally well on sloppy nights.  That is its main appeal to fish when other flies snag or foul.  I like dredging bottom and in new less familiar areas I would use his fly on the 9ips sink line to probe bottom with confidence I would not snag even if I was scraping along the entire retrieve.  

Edited by The Graveyard Shift

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Posted (edited) · Report post

Herb

 

A good day Herb. 

 

Sorry for late reply. I have been unable to open my iPad for a few days.

 

Exciting that you dug out one of your TH again. I was really sad when you decided a while back to drop them. Mind your focus on single hand rods brought about some amazing new designs which blew me away. You did such an incredible job on them. Have to confess that I have not as yet built that was it a 9 wt into a rod yet. But I will.

Thanks for the heads up on the Wolf Lines.

 

ok in the 12’ 9 “ TH there are two versions. The original one which some of the guys call the Mark I matches well with 550 grains. Up to 600 is good to.

 

The Mark II version same length will cast 700 grains although I prefer  600 to 650 grains.

The Mark II has become the general purpose rod. It covers more bases. Very little increase in rod mass and bigger range of lines from 550 to 700. I still fish the Mark I more as I have such a soft spot in my heart for it.

 

 

I can get to like any line that casts as well as the one you are describing even if it has a short head. You did well to cast that distance after being away from the TH for a good while.

100 ft is a very long way on a beach.

 

Its funny how we went in different directions after having spent a very long time collaborating together trying to solve the Out Front TH  rod  puzzle struggling to find the solution and then finding we had already discovered it without realising it for a few months until we built on some prototypes we previously thought were too much rod so left them in the closet until on a whim we turned them to rods. I still smile at how close we were to missing the target all together. Bit of luck goes a long way in life.

 

You know the amount of effort I believe is not that dissimilar between single hand and two hand rods. The feel is different very different.

I still fish my single hand rods and they feel like tooth pics after the TH. They don’t feel like ten weights at all.

Both have a place in the NE. Coast surf. I am still finding new ways to fish a fly with the TH so they have not grown old on me.
Poor health over past twelve months has slowed down my ambitions a great deal but if I regain it fully then it’s onwards again especially with the two new prototype 15 footers.

We need even more for way better management for our beloved Striper.
 

 Mike

 

Edited by Mike Oliver

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