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Let's Fix Omega Protein's Menhaden Madness

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19 hours ago, JoeC said:

Correction .... from what I'm reading Virginia IS NOT a cooperating party to ASMFC.  So maybe the real question is ... what leverage does ASMFC have with "cooperating parties (states)" that do not do whatever it takes to insure compliance in their states, especially when the non-compliance is habitual and intentional?

The Atlantic Coastal Fisheries Cooperative Management Act provides that, if a state doesn't comply with a provision of an ASMFC management plan, and the ASMFC formally finds that state out of compliance, the ASMFC can then notify the Secretary of Commerce of its noncompliance finding.  The Secretary then has 30 days to make an independent determination of whether 1) the state was out of compliance and 2) if the state is out of compliance with a provision of a management plan, whether the providion in question is necessary for the conservation of the species in question.  If the Secretary finds that both of those factors are true, he must then impose a mortalorium on that state's fishy for such species within 6 months, which moratorium will remain in place until the state comes into compliance with the ASMFC plan.

 

That's the law.  Politics plays a role, too, but if the Secretary sticks to the law, in most cases it's a pretty big stick for the ASMFC to wield.

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9 hours ago, reel gambler said:

Not sure if it’s good per say, but the dems now control the legislature and the governors office. Let’s hope they vote control to the VMRC, instead of the status quo. 

Apparently its not a strict party line issue, as there is a union at Omega, composed largely of minority-group workers, that has a lot of pull with the Democrats in the legislature.  So while the Democrats taking control probably helps, it's far from a guarantee that anything will happen.

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1 hour ago, CWitek said:

The Atlantic Coastal Fisheries Cooperative Management Act provides that, if a state doesn't comply with a provision of an ASMFC management plan, and the ASMFC formally finds that state out of compliance, the ASMFC can then notify the Secretary of Commerce of its noncompliance finding.  The Secretary then has 30 days to make an independent determination of whether 1) the state was out of compliance and 2) if the state is out of compliance with a provision of a management plan, whether the providion in question is necessary for the conservation of the species in question.  If the Secretary finds that both of those factors are true, he must then impose a mortalorium on that state's fishy for such species within 6 months, which moratorium will remain in place until the state comes into compliance with the ASMFC plan.

 

That's the law.  Politics plays a role, too, but if the Secretary sticks to the law, in most cases it's a pretty big stick for the ASMFC to wield.

The big problem is the last part i.e. is "the provision necessary of the conservation of the species," is a big fat NO! None of the scientists in the field thought that the Chesapeake Bay Cap had anything to do with the conservation of menhaden.

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4 mins ago, MakoMike said:

The big problem is the last part i.e. is "the provision necessary of the conservation of the species," is a big fat NO! None of the scientists in the field thought that the Chesapeake Bay Cap had anything to do with the conservation of menhaden.

That's the big hurdle.  But its not quite as bleak as you paint it.  The question of whether localized depletion was a problem remains ambiguous; while there is not clear scientific support for the Bay Cap, there is also no clear evidence refuting the need for it.  And Jason McNamee of Rhode Island, among others, supported the conservation benefits of the Bay Cap at the meeting.  So while the Cap is largely a precautionary measure, and does not have clear scientific support, there were a few scientists at the meeting who spoke on the record that the Bay Cap offers a conservation benefit, enough to give Ross grounds to support the noncompliance finding if he chooses to do so.

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Problem will resolve itself in the not too distant future as bunker numbers will fall so low as to make commercial harvesting unprofitable.

 

Then to add insult to injury the State will probably pay them for their boats and lost ability earn a living. 

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Jay was speaking about possible conservation benefits to other residents of the bay, if localized depletion was really happening. Even if you accept the premise that there is such a thing as localized deletion, which has never been proven, the bay cap would at best have a minuscule impact on the conservation of Atlantic menhaden as a species.

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2 mins ago, Gotcow? said:

Problem will resolve itself in the not too distant future as bunker numbers will fall so low as to make commercial harvesting unprofitable.

 

Then to add insult to injury the State will probably pay them for their boats and lost ability earn a living. 

All of the science says that is a lie and the population of Atlantic menhaden is healthy and booming.

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36 mins ago, MakoMike said:

All of the science says that is a lie and the population of Atlantic menhaden is healthy and booming.

I do know that in the 90's I could go to the outerbanks and rotuinely see large inshore schools of menhades a mile long -no more.  In fact haven't seen any inshre schools.

also, it was very common to see 3 to 5 boats and spotter planes within a few miles of shore sucking up schools and schools of menhaden- don't sse them out there anymore.

If there are plenty of menhaden then they must be offshore out of sight, as are the fleets chasing them have to be.

Edited by surffshr

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Localized depletion, IMHO is and has been occurring for some time. All I have is my 30 years on the water. I don’t have a degree. Witnessed it via boat and beach. 
 

Why the minorities* want minimum wage and welfare as bunker Fisher-man I don’t understand. It is the only business out in the middle of nowhere. So business omega gets clout with the Republicans and minorities* on welfare with the Democrats. And the bunker suffer, as the canucks take out fish, and the lions share of the $, and the public and public resource take it on the chin. 

Edited by TimS
Let’s keep the race stuff relatively PC please

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1 hour ago, Gotcow? said:

That's the best science money can buy.

Do you know anybody, scientist or not, who works for free? These guys are payed by the states and the feds.

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1 hour ago, surffshr said:

I do know that in the 90's I could go to the outerbanks and rotuinely see large inshore schools of menhades a mile long -no more.  In fact haven't seen any inshre schools.

also, it was very common to see 3 to 5 boats and spotter planes within a few miles of shore sucking up schools and schools of menhaden- don't sse them out there anymore.

If there are plenty of menhaden then they must be offshore out of sight, as are the fleets chasing them have to be.

Well, needless to say random observations are not science, but I see this miles long schools down the Jersey shore every year, and back in the 90s Mainers never saw a menhaden, now they have a commercial fishery on them. Narragansett bay is loaded with them every year now. Reports of them spawning out-of-season in Long Island Sound. I could go on, but suffice it say most peoples observations tend to support the idea that there are plenty of menhaden around, which is what the science also says.

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Just now, MakoMike said:

Do you know anybody, scientist or not, who works for free? These guys are payed by the states and the feds.

Let's just say that I have no faith that the people and mangers of the fisheries resources will act in the best interests of the fisheries.

 

The money buys the regulations.

Always has, always will.

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1 hour ago, MakoMike said:

Well, needless to say random observations are not science, but I see this miles long schools down the Jersey shore every year, and back in the 90s Mainers never saw a menhaden, now they have a commercial fishery on them. Narragansett bay is loaded with them every year now. Reports of them spawning out-of-season in Long Island Sound. I could go on, but suffice it say most peoples observations tend to support the idea that there are plenty of menhaden around, which is what the science also says.

that would mean the schools up north have not been fished out like they have off the Carolinas.  I am a firm beliver in good science.  So there may be alot of menhaden but not down in the Carolina's.  Also the large bluefish and stripers don't come to the beach anymore since the menhaden have seemingly disappeared.   The boaters say they are all 2 miles or more offshore feeing.  I also wonder if the laws up north are better at protecting the menhaden?

Edited by surffshr

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