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Striper population discussion from report thread

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Hey guys not an expert but can someone chime in on this. So it seems according to the reports the boats are having a field day and that a lot of the big bass are past the 3 mile line. I know a lot of people blame replenishment and I know that has a role in this. Heres my question. 

What role does bluefin tuna population and other offshore predators that are higher up in the food chain play concerning bass hanging out beyond the three mile line?

 

If that population was depleted would that encourage the bass and baitfish to hang out there?

 

Ive noticed throughout my life everything is always connected. Any imbalance will have an effect. Just food for thought.

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I'm fascinated to find out that the great catches have been coming beyond the legal point and suddenly don't feel so bad about not having a vessel to go out and fish from. Interesting development...

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Why rest on what we percieve as a strong or weak population? Instead, it's time for fishery management and we as anglers to be proactive instead of reactive. I still think the cap on fish is a strong idea. 28-35. One fish. No bs bonus tag. 1 striped bass at 30 inches typically provides 2 dinners for a family of 4. More than most fish such as sea bass and fluke. Also, why not start the season April 1 instead of March 1? Allow the spawn to happen peacefully. Sure, why that won't immediately move the needle, over time, that extra month will pay off major dividends. Besides, the bass really aren't biting until than. Even if only 1000 keepers are caught and kept in the month of March in the state of NJ, that's 5000 fish over 5 years. A huge amount of eggs would be lost. Seems like every few years its the same old song.."this is glory days again!"...a few years later..."we need to do something, this is awful!" It's been the same rinse and repeat cycle now for some time. The positive is, and again, this is my observation, others may be much different...I am totally seeing a new found catch and release mentality taking over. It's only expanding. 

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18 mins ago, joefishnj21 said:

Why rest on what we percieve as a strong or weak population? Instead, it's time for fishery management and we as anglers to be proactive instead of reactive. I still think the cap on fish is a strong idea. 28-35. One fish. No bs bonus tag. 1 striped bass at 30 inches typically provides 2 dinners for a family of 4. More than most fish such as sea bass and fluke. Also, why not start the season April 1 instead of March 1? Allow the spawn to happen peacefully. Sure, why that won't immediately move the needle, over time, that extra month will pay off major dividends. Besides, the bass really aren't biting until than. Even if only 1000 keepers are caught and kept in the month of March in the state of NJ, that's 5000 fish over 5 years. A huge amount of eggs would be lost. Seems like every few years its the same old song.."this is glory days again!"...a few years later..."we need to do something, this is awful!" It's been the same rinse and repeat cycle now for some time. The positive is, and again, this is my observation, others may be much different...I am totally seeing a new found catch and release mentality taking over. It's only expanding. 

 

problem with a slot is it targets a full class of fish which will then be decimated.  That 28" fish has laid eggs maybe once in it's lifetime.  Bump it to 35'+ and then all those fish from 28+ will have at least 5-6 years of breeding before they can be harvested. 

 

I'd be happy to see it as a single fish of 35"+ to give more fish the opportunity to drop their eggs. However, if MD doesn't get its **** together none of this will make a difference.  MD wipes out entire classes of fish before they mature enough to migrate.

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I’d rather leave the large untouched and let them dump millions of eggs every yr, and have tons and tons of small fish to weed thru with the strong and smarter fish making it to maturity. 

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14 hours ago, Daylight said:

New to this area, not surf fishing. Seems a lot hype from tackle shops and no substance. Can’t blame them for wanting the business but this IBSP is way, way over rated.

I don't fish IBSP bc it's not very close to me. I hear it's better than a lot of beaches here in Jersey. Do you fish the other spots here in Jersey? I feel that's the only way to make a fair comparison, as it can still be pretty bad, but hyped up because the rest of Jersey is indeed that bad. I only fish from Sandy Hook to Belmar.

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Posted (edited) · Report post

1 hour ago, adams54 said:

Hey guys not an expert but can someone chime in on this. So it seems according to the reports the boats are having a field day and that a lot of the big bass are past the 3 mile line. I know a lot of people blame replenishment and I know that has a role in this. Heres my question. 

What role does bluefin tuna population and other offshore predators that are higher up in the food chain play concerning bass hanging out beyond the three mile line?

 

If that population was depleted would that encourage the bass and baitfish to hang out there?

 

Ive noticed throughout my life everything is always connected. Any imbalance will have an effect. Just food for thought.

As a scientist, I'd agree w that last line. It's really hard to ever make definitive conclusions with the information you have. People jump into conclusions, and maybe they're right, but it is based on inconclusive evidence. You realize the more information you have, the less you actually know.

 

This attitude actually makes fishing quite hard for me XD... because I don't actually attribute a catch to any specific condition. It's the product of every condition, many of which you might not think of. It would be nice to create a nice machine learning model, but that would need a lot of data.

Edited by kyleeng

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1 hour ago, joefishnj21 said:

Why rest on what we percieve as a strong or weak population? Instead, it's time for fishery management and we as anglers to be proactive instead of reactive. I still think the cap on fish is a strong idea. 28-35. One fish. No bs bonus tag. 1 striped bass at 30 inches typically provides 2 dinners for a family of 4. More than most fish such as sea bass and fluke. Also, why not start the season April 1 instead of March 1? Allow the spawn to happen peacefully. Sure, why that won't immediately move the needle, over time, that extra month will pay off major dividends. Besides, the bass really aren't biting until than. Even if only 1000 keepers are caught and kept in the month of March in the state of NJ, that's 5000 fish over 5 years. A huge amount of eggs would be lost. Seems like every few years its the same old song.."this is glory days again!"...a few years later..."we need to do something, this is awful!" It's been the same rinse and repeat cycle now for some time. The positive is, and again, this is my observation, others may be much different...I am totally seeing a new found catch and release mentality taking over. It's only expanding. 

If release mortality is high, especially during summer months, then it may make more sense to close the season during the summer.  How you do that while people are fishing for other species I don't know.

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Does anyone else have a feeling that maybe, and it's a pretty big maybe, the fish have learned where its safer?  

 

I've watched fish in salmon river learn what fishing line looks like and actually dodge it.  I've watched fish in ponds learn what to eat and not to eat.  What about the pattern of a new color always producing well when its first released?  Seen it first hand with nuclear chicken gulp.  

 

Maybe the bass stay offshore to dodge the million people trying to catch them?  

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Anybody else feel the missing blue fish might be a BIG reason stripe bass is not coming to the surf?   Blitz where water ran red=bluefish, mullet run=bluefish,  Anybody catch any bluefish after the last blow, big or small?

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1 hour ago, kyleeng said:

I don't fish IBSP bc it's not very close to me. I hear it's better than a lot of beaches here in Jersey. Do you fish the other spots here in Jersey? I feel that's the only way to make a fair comparison, as it can still be pretty bad, but hyped up because the rest of Jersey is indeed that bad. I only fish from Sandy Hook to Belmar.

 

He probably hasn't fished a ton of other places in NJ yet. 

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27 mins ago, ChumSlickJon said:

Does anyone else have a feeling that maybe, and it's a pretty big maybe, the fish have learned where its safer?  

 

I've watched fish in salmon river learn what fishing line looks like and actually dodge it.  I've watched fish in ponds learn what to eat and not to eat.  What about the pattern of a new color always producing well when its first released?  Seen it first hand with nuclear chicken gulp.  

 

Maybe the bass stay offshore to dodge the million people trying to catch them?  

I was afraid to say it first LOL.

There's plenty of bait in close to the beach too. How many reports do you see someone say "tons of bait and nothing on it"?  How many times do you witness it yourself when fishing the surf?

There's also still a lot of structure from Sea Girt up to Long Branch, but that's gonna change when they bury it all this fall. That will be the official end to surf fishing in Jersey.

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A solution to this all. Artificially create holes/pockets with the beach replenishment every x yards.

 

Legitimately, I want to see if this will work. I fish at a pond pretty regularly, and there's a lot of fallen trees laying around. I was thinking of just throwing some at a particular spot to see if I could create an ambush spot for the fish. May try it next year.

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Posted (edited) · Report post

3 mins ago, kyleeng said:

Artificially create holes/pockets with the beach replenishment every x yards.

You mean with rocks right?  Because sand moves.  

We already know it works.

Edited by ChumSlickJon

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12 mins ago, linesiderdemdnj said:

Also if we were going by the lack of structure debate, then one could argue that why are small fish on the pumped beaches in Monmouth and ocean counties? Structure is coming back and that could be a reason why. I know south jersey is very flat. I think it’s almost unique how flat a lot of that is and could be a real reason why they don’t come in. But with a robust population of fish I feel like things would be different. My opinion only. 

My home port is Townsend’s inlet.....I’ve been running out of that inlet for 30 years, my family for 50.  I’m primarily a boat guy but I do surf fish too. I agree with you that A lot of south jerseys structure was subtle....but you also had eel grass and clam beds to go along with those humps and bumps. 

 

Before beach replenisment and artificial reefs was a place called the table top ... It was between corsons and Ti....it was a Flounder factory all summer long and all but a gimme for stripers in November. That’s just one of thousands of spots dozed flat. We would save numbers to good pieces of natural structure, ridges humps etc.... that we did well with flounder at during the summer. We would hit the same spots in the fall and catch stripers ,  what Few fish do pass south jersey these days inside the fence are on the move and in a hurry .... it’s a desert. 

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