weekendwarrior

Will New Regs Be Enough?

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49 mins ago, kurazy kracka said:

With a fish of 35"+ that gives the 28"-35" fish multiply years to breed. A 28" fish may not have even had the chance to spawn yet. 

 

If MD doesnt clean up their summer striper slaughter and Nj clean up their spring striper slaughter I dont think anything will have much of an impact. MD and NJ are the biggest parties responsible for their demise IMO. 

Recreationally, yes. However, there's no commercial harvest of striped bass here. 

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On 10/27/2019 at 9:08 PM, Scallywag said:

I'm all for a slot limit. 1 fish 26-32"

 

 

At the moment I'm more inclined to 28"-32" and assess the results in 2 or 3 years.  If the fishery improves, drop to 26".  This is only based on my experience catching quite a few 26"-28" fish over the past few years.  I'd rather folks return them for a while. 

Edited by Jettyhound

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55 mins ago, Jettyhound said:

At the moment I'm more inclined to 28"-32" and assess the results in 2 or 3 years.  If the fishery improves, drop to 26".  This is only based on my experience catching quite a few 26"-28" fish over the past few years.  I'd rather folks return them for a while. 

That makes sense. I lowered it to 26" for that reason, kinda. This way, you get your one at 26" and you're done. The larger the fish, the more eggs/potential offspring. If I remember correctly, I don't think 26" bass are of breeding age, yet. 

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56 mins ago, Scallywag said:

That makes sense. I lowered it to 26" for that reason, kinda. This way, you get your one at 26" and you're done. The larger the fish, the more eggs/potential offspring. If I remember correctly, I don't think 26" bass are of breeding age, yet. 

Yes, I believe the "scientists" list spawning size above 28".  Which leads to another slot consideration.  Should the slot be a smaller?  Maybe 22"-28"?  Or will that remove too many fish from the mass? 

FL has a 28"-33" snook slot BUT they have CLOSED seasons.  I am a firm believer that NO bass should be taken Jan 1 - June 20 in NJ; single hooks only; one hook per plug; artificials only.  I'm sure they are listening to me. LOL!  

Edited by Jettyhound

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49 mins ago, Jettyhound said:

Yes, I believe the "scientists" list spawning size above 28".  Which leads to another slot consideration.  Should the slot be a smaller?  Maybe 22"-28"?  Or will that remove too many fish from the mass? 

FL has a 28"-33" snook slot BUT they have CLOSED seasons.  I am a firm believer that NO bass should be taken Jan 1 - June 20 in NJ; single hooks only; one hook per plug; artificials only.  I'm sure they are listening to me. LOL!  

I'm not sure how it works but I do know that they take consideration in class/age. Basically not wanting to put too much pressure on any particular class of fish. 

 

As for not taking bass in spring, Im ok with that as long as they still allow the fishing of striped bass. Meaning, you can target the species but not harvest. Spring time has been a better season than fall for me and most anglers. 

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On 10/28/2019 at 3:27 PM, chitala383 said:

I'm with you on that, but I was gonna say 24-34 or something like that. Either way I think a slot limit is the way to go. I know it's been said before but I'll say it again, look what a slot limit did for the redfish population. It works. Also, I think having a slot might cut down on the charter and party boats going out to find large fish.

Lot's of guys make that comparison. My take ( no expert ) is that Redfish are not as accessible to the general population of the bucket brigade. They are also a completely different fish and are not 18" here, 20" there. They are I believe a one slot meets all needs. We will not end up with that.

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On 10/28/2019 at 5:05 PM, Scallywag said:

My sizes were hypothetical. I'm sure someone with science could give a better idea. 

 

Stop. A moratorium is not necessary. A recent study showed how striped bass were seen out in the canyons with pelagic species. 

 

Fish move. Depending on different pressures, they maybe moving to areas we didn't previously believe them to be. I'm not saying that numbers aren't down but a moratorium is extreme. Yes, there are poachers but it's not as many as you think. It's our responsibility to report poachers. Officers can't be everywhere. If you're seeing poachers, report them. 

 

A moratorium would have a huge impact on so many other things too. Harvesting from any species is necessary for the ecosystem. Not too mention how fishing for this species is vital to local economies, up and down the coast. 

I see your point, but you’re wrong about “fish moving”

 

First of all, numbers are down. Way down. Second, that study was one fish. One fish with a tag went out there. You can’t possibly argue striped bass being overfished while overfishing is occurring, to bass being out in the canyons with one fish monitored out of who knows how many striped bass are out there. 

 

If “fish move” then we would see all those bass that are “moving” come back to the rivers to spawn. 

 

You guys have had had a great season up in the raritan last few years. Might be a good sign, time will only tell. Down here in the Chesapeake, that isn’t the case. Trophy season down has been awful for the past 4 or 5 years. Fish swimming past the Delaware bay that migrate south are hammered at the CBBT and netted once they come into the bay. The Chesapeake is the king pin of the entire spawning stock of bass and make up around 80% of that large migrating biomass. 

 

A tackle shop owner knows perch netters who tend their nets regularly to get the striped bass out of them in the spring here on the Chesapeake bay. They do this way up two closed, no target spawning rivers in Maryland. The busiest week out of their short season they release about 40-50 striped bass on average. This past spring, river A: 5 stripers in one week. River b: 9 stripers. That was the most in one week they released and their nets apparently are very big and take up most of the width of these two rivers. This is in the early spring when prespawn fish move in. Keep in mind: these are no target, closed rivers. 

 

A slot is what we don’t want. The 2015 year class is going to be 28-35” (the new regulation unless a state wants to conservatively equal an 18% reduction) and once they reach that size, that large year class will be pounded until they are few and far between, like what we could be seeing with the 2011 large year class and that year class was bigger than 2015. 

 

A moratorium worked great back in the 80’s and is described as a major success story. I have not heard of side effects with it or read about any. 

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Correction: obviously not all of them are netted but there are netters in the bay and have heard horror stories about how gigantic these nets are and it sounds terrible. 

 

There was a very great bite for weeks in the offseason in a part of the Chesapeake bay that was very consistent with all very large fish 40-50” long. Netters heard about it, and once they heard about it they netted every single fish out of that mass. I went to this spot a day after and what was very consistent action, turned into a barren wasteland. I caught one of the only fish I saw caught out of 10-15 boats and it was 20-21” long. 

 

Its worse than you think. 

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12 hours ago, linesiderdemdnj said:

I see your point, but you’re wrong about “fish moving”

 

First of all, numbers are down. Way down. Second, that study was one fish. One fish with a tag went out there. You can’t possibly argue striped bass being overfished while overfishing is occurring, to bass being out in the canyons with one fish monitored out of who knows how many striped bass are out there. 

 

If “fish move” then we would see all those bass that are “moving” come back to the rivers to spawn. 

 

You guys have had had a great season up in the raritan last few years. Might be a good sign, time will only tell. Down here in the Chesapeake, that isn’t the case. Trophy season down has been awful for the past 4 or 5 years. Fish swimming past the Delaware bay that migrate south are hammered at the CBBT and netted once they come into the bay. The Chesapeake is the king pin of the entire spawning stock of bass and make up around 80% of that large migrating biomass. 

 

A tackle shop owner knows perch netters who tend their nets regularly to get the striped bass out of them in the spring here on the Chesapeake bay. They do this way up two closed, no target spawning rivers in Maryland. The busiest week out of their short season they release about 40-50 striped bass on average. This past spring, river A: 5 stripers in one week. River b: 9 stripers. That was the most in one week they released and their nets apparently are very big and take up most of the width of these two rivers. This is in the early spring when prespawn fish move in. Keep in mind: these are no target, closed rivers. 

 

A slot is what we don’t want. The 2015 year class is going to be 28-35” (the new regulation unless a state wants to conservatively equal an 18% reduction) and once they reach that size, that large year class will be pounded until they are few and far between, like what we could be seeing with the 2011 large year class and that year class was bigger than 2015. 

 

A moratorium worked great back in the 80’s and is described as a major success story. I have not heard of side effects with it or read about any. 

If you read all my posts, you would see that I mentioned how slots can put pressure on a particular class. 

 

I also stated the negatives of a moratorium. 

 

I stated that I am in favor of reducing mortality, by reducing the number of fish legally harvested. 

 

You state that we have had good seasons up in Raritan Bay, which is somewhat true but numbers are down there too. I don't have any control over what they decide and I don't think the previous rules worked at all. The bonus tag needs to die. However, there is no commercial harvest here. Other states can't say the same. We put pressure on fish as they're passing but there are areas to the north that have them all summer long. 

 

And as far as the study of the "one fish", you're right, it was one fish. However, we can assume that fish wasn't alone. Not too mention, we know boats stack up at the 3 mile line and slaughter bass on a troll. Bass are migratory, schooling fish. It's unlikely that fish wandered out there alone. 

 

And so you're aware, surf fishing for bass or any other species has been abysmal here in Jersey. So are all species' numbers down? There is no structure along jersey beaches anymore, which would make it seem that numbers are down. 

 

I'm not saying bass stocks aren't down. I'd be the first to say they are. The points I was making was that there are a LOT of factors that can't be ignored. 

 

And back to what I said, fish do move. That's literally how they or any other species survives. If there's no food in an area or there's no natural structure, do you believe they would stay there? Herding animals move from plain to plain as food sources get depleted. 

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13 hours ago, Scallywag said:

If you read all my posts, you would see that I mentioned how slots can put pressure on a particular class. 

 

I also stated the negatives of a moratorium. 

 

I stated that I am in favor of reducing mortality, by reducing the number of fish legally harvested. 

 

You state that we have had good seasons up in Raritan Bay, which is somewhat true but numbers are down there too. I don't have any control over what they decide and I don't think the previous rules worked at all. The bonus tag needs to die. However, there is no commercial harvest here. Other states can't say the same. We put pressure on fish as they're passing but there are areas to the north that have them all summer long. 

 

And as far as the study of the "one fish", you're right, it was one fish. However, we can assume that fish wasn't alone. Not too mention, we know boats stack up at the 3 mile line and slaughter bass on a troll. Bass are migratory, schooling fish. It's unlikely that fish wandered out there alone. 

 

And so you're aware, surf fishing for bass or any other species has been abysmal here in Jersey. So are all species' numbers down? There is no structure along jersey beaches anymore, which would make it seem that numbers are down. 

 

I'm not saying bass stocks aren't down. I'd be the first to say they are. The points I was making was that there are a LOT of factors that can't be ignored. 

 

And back to what I said, fish do move. That's literally how they or any other species survives. If there's no food in an area or there's no natural structure, do you believe they would stay there? Herding animals move from plain to plain as food sources get depleted. 

Absolutely fish move they swim around the entire ocean but I’m losing track of what you were intending to prove by saying fish move in the first place based on that post. You made it seem like fish move, they’re 20 miles out, they’re fine. At least that’s the drift I caught. If they aren’t along the beaches cause of beach replenishment, that’s one thing. But I am in the camp of fish moving way offshore anyway depending on what is out there for them to feed on, that there’s no plethora of fish to feed on that bait and for major competition between all the fish to push that bait into shallow water, the beach. If there were truly outrageous numbers of fish 3-however many miles they are out, we would see those outrageous numbers in the striper factory (Chesapeake bay) and I believe that isn’t the case. 

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2 mins ago, linesiderdemdnj said:

Absolutely fish move they swim around the entire ocean but I’m losing track of what you were intending to prove by saying fish move in the first place based on that post. You made it seem like fish move, they’re 20 miles out, they’re fine. At least that’s the drift I caught. If they aren’t along the beaches cause of beach replenishment, that’s one thing. But I am in the camp of fish moving way offshore anyway depending on what is out there for them to feed on, that there’s no plethora of fish to feed on that bait and for major competition between all the fish to push that bait into shallow water, the beach. If there were truly outrageous numbers of fish 3-however many miles they are out, we would see those outrageous numbers in the striper factory (Chesapeake bay) and I believe that isn’t the case. 

Not sure about MD but you can't fish for stripers past the 3 mile line in Jersey. That was my point.  I have no idea what kind of food sources they have out there. The thing is, if there's no ecosystem here, the fish would move on. 

 

I definitely don't think there's a plethora of healthy bass stocks 20 miles out. And if they are, theyre smarter than we give them credit for. 

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1 min ago, Scallywag said:

Not sure about MD but you can't fish for stripers past the 3 mile line in Jersey. That was my point.  I have no idea what kind of food sources they have out there. The thing is, if there's no ecosystem here, the fish would move on. 

 

I definitely don't think there's a plethora of healthy bass stocks 20 miles out. And if they are, theyre smarter than we give them credit for. 

That’s another thing I just can’t buy into myself - the fish becoming smarter and not hitting plugs or lures or even bait for that reason. If they are hungry, they will eat. Their diet ranges quite a bit as they migrate so far. It’s not like largemouth being in the same pond their whole lives. Now I’m taking about migrating fish, I’m sure “resident” fish become more keyed in on certain baitfish or crustaceans. A spot I fish has a lot of resident bass. Using a lure I will catch mainly schoolies in the summertime (as a prime example) but my buddy eeling will catch keeper size bass in the same area I’m fishing. That is one example where I think bass could be smarter or simply lazier and selective. Migrating fish IMO are different 

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18 mins ago, linesiderdemdnj said:

That’s another thing I just can’t buy into myself - the fish becoming smarter and not hitting plugs or lures or even bait for that reason. If they are hungry, they will eat. Their diet ranges quite a bit as they migrate so far. It’s not like largemouth being in the same pond their whole lives. Now I’m taking about migrating fish, I’m sure “resident” fish become more keyed in on certain baitfish or crustaceans. A spot I fish has a lot of resident bass. Using a lure I will catch mainly schoolies in the summertime (as a prime example) but my buddy eeling will catch keeper size bass in the same area I’m fishing. That is one example where I think bass could be smarter or simply lazier and selective. Migrating fish IMO are different 

You realize resident is a relative term? Residents don't necessarily stay residents forever. If that were the case, you'd be catching cows in bays, rivers and creeks all summer. Bass need to mature before becoming migratory.

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Just shut down all forms of fishing one bays and estuaries until the beginning of May. Let the bass spawn without angling pressure. Commercial and recreation. 

We are literally doing what we did to the weakfish. It’s been years and they still haven’t rebounded. 

The reality is the bio mass of spawning fish is between 28 and 35 inches. Now we are gonna to specifically target them. Makes no sense.  

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8 hours ago, Scallywag said:

You realize resident is a relative term? Residents don't necessarily stay residents forever. If that were the case, you'd be catching cows in bays, rivers and creeks all summer. Bass need to mature before becoming migratory.

Wel that’s exactly what happens here - 40 inchers are caught occasionally in August. I know resident is a bad term to use but that’s exactly what the deal is. 

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