Gotcow?

Would Turkey have attcked if Trump said no and left our troops in northern Syria?

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I've heard people say Turkey would have attacked even with our troops in place.

 

I don't think they would have attacked and taken the risk of possibly engaging US troops for fear of how we might respond. I don't think Erdogan would take that chance.

 

Trump could have drawn down and out over time and at least allowed the Kurds to establish a defense instead of hanging them out to die.

 

But then again as we have heard Trump say, he is smarter than all his generals.    :dismay:

 

Can't help but wonder if Erdogan bought off Trump with the promise of dirt on Biden.

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6 mins ago, Gotcow? said:

I've heard people say Turkey would have attacked even with our troops in place.

 

 

There are some still in place, and almost got hit by Turkish artillery today according to reports.

 

But no, I don't think Turkey would've attacked without Trump's green light or capitulation or whatever it was. It sure the hell wasn't according to any plan other than what was in his head at the moment.

Edited by patchyfog

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Pure conjecture here.  Putting the militaries of two nations, with different objectives, in close proximity to each other is a recipe for disaster.  I don't think the Turks would have crossed in force had we not left a vacuum.  I also think the effects of bailing on the kurds could be significant, but I'm not up to speed on our recent actions together.  Again, JimP probably has the best real data on that.

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1 hour ago, Nessmuk said:

Pure conjecture here.  Putting the militaries of two nations, with different objectives, in close proximity to each other is a recipe for disaster.  I don't think the Turks would have crossed in force had we not left a vacuum.  I also think the effects of bailing on the kurds could be significant, but I'm not up to speed on our recent actions together.  Again, JimP probably has the best real data on that.

What others have to say

"As Republicans we risk loosing everything

"George Will has a warning for Republican lawmakers: If you don’t stand up to President Donald Trump, you deserve to lose everything next year. 

Will, a longtime conservative voice who quit the party in 2016 when it was clear Trump would be nominated, slammed the president’s decision to “betray” America’s Kurdish allies in Syria. He said the move could complete “the destruction of the GOP’s advantage regarding foreign policy.”

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1 hour ago, Gotcow? said:

I've heard people say Turkey would have attacked even with our troops in place.

 

I don't think they would have attacked and taken the risk of possibly engaging US troops for fear of how we might respond. I don't think Erdogan would take that chance.

 

Trump could have drawn down and out over time and at least allowed the Kurds to establish a defense instead of hanging them out to die.

 

But then again as we have heard Trump say, he is smarter than all his generals.    :dismay:

 

Can't help but wonder if Erdogan bought off Trump with the promise of dirt on Biden.

Who knows he may have the pee pee tapes

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2 hours ago, Gotcow? said:

I've heard people say Turkey would have attacked even with our troops in place.

 

I don't think they would have attacked and taken the risk of possibly engaging US troops for fear of how we might respond. I don't think Erdogan would take that chance.

 

Trump could have drawn down and out over time and at least allowed the Kurds to establish a defense instead of hanging them out to die.

 

But then again as we have heard Trump say, he is smarter than all his generals.    :dismay:

 

Can't help but wonder if Erdogan bought off Trump with the promise of dirt on Biden.

I doubt Turkey would have moved.

 

I don't share President Trump's assumption that the 10,000 ISIS fighters that the Kurds have been holding will go bother the Europeans, and not us. I don't think that Erdogan cares half as much about ISIS as he does about pursuing his standing quarrel with the Kurds. No doubt his bigly, very stable genius is enough to ensure that we're safe.

 

One thing for which I do have to give Trump credit. Europe has been as utterly useless on this issue as they have been on defending themselves. He's completely, totally right about that. Unfortunately, turning a small army of ISIS fighters loose is more likely to re-establish the ISIS state, within the borders of that refugee dumping ground that Erdogan wants to establish.  So the Caliphate will be revived, and within the near future, it will be back in action.

 

I think this particular decision is just another example of Trump's need to lash out and do something impulsive and dramatic when he's frustrated or feeling oppressed by events.

 

No doubt his fans will applaud. When the Caliphate is re-established, it will be Obama's fault, or Hillary's fault. 

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11 hours ago, BrianBM said:

I doubt Turkey would have moved.

 

I don't share President Trump's assumption that the 10,000 ISIS fighters that the Kurds have been holding will go bother the Europeans, and not us. I don't think that Erdogan cares half as much about ISIS as he does about pursuing his standing quarrel with the Kurds. No doubt his bigly, very stable genius is enough to ensure that we're safe.

 

One thing for which I do have to give Trump credit. Europe has been as utterly useless on this issue as they have been on defending themselves. He's completely, totally right about that. Unfortunately, turning a small army of ISIS fighters loose is more likely to re-establish the ISIS state, within the borders of that refugee dumping ground that Erdogan wants to establish.  So the Caliphate will be revived, and within the near future, it will be back in action.

 

I think this particular decision is just another example of Trump's need to lash out and do something impulsive and dramatic when he's frustrated or feeling oppressed by events.

 

No doubt his fans will applaud. When the Caliphate is re-established, it will be Obama's fault, or Hillary's fault. 

Interesting take, and I don't disagree with much here.  At this point, here is what I do believe.  Issues between the Kurds and Turkey are none of our affair.  I'm of the belief that the Kurds are not our ally in the traditional sense, that they are people we helped, but have no long term, common interests with us.  We have nothing to gain by getting involved.  

Revival of the Caliphate will not be a problem for us to be involved in either.  Let the Syrians and their Russian allies get bogged down in that mess.  The chunks of land ISIS controlled had very little effect on us.  I would rather see an off ramp in the US repaired than see the equivalent amount of money wasted on a missile fired at an armed pick up truck in the middle of nowhere Syria.

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13 hours ago, BrianBM said:

I doubt Turkey would have moved.

 

I don't share President Trump's assumption that the 10,000 ISIS fighters that the Kurds have been holding will go bother the Europeans, and not us. I don't think that Erdogan cares half as much about ISIS as he does about pursuing his standing quarrel with the Kurds. No doubt his bigly, very stable genius is enough to ensure that we're safe.

 

One thing for which I do have to give Trump credit. Europe has been as utterly useless on this issue as they have been on defending themselves. He's completely, totally right about that. Unfortunately, turning a small army of ISIS fighters loose is more likely to re-establish the ISIS state, within the borders of that refugee dumping ground that Erdogan wants to establish.  So the Caliphate will be revived, and within the near future, it will be back in action.

 

I think this particular decision is just another example of Trump's need to lash out and do something impulsive and dramatic when he's frustrated or feeling oppressed by events.

 

No doubt his fans will applaud. When the Caliphate is re-established, it will be Obama's fault, or Hillary's fault. 

Erdogan wants a “caliphate” on his border?

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