fatbikerjoe

String Theory

Rate this topic

18 posts in this topic

String theory:  n physics, string theory is a theoretical framework in which the point-like particles of particle physics are replaced by one-dimensional objects called strings. It describes how these strings propagate through space and interact with each other.

 

Last month, I enjoyed listening to Doc Mueller lecture.  He is one of my favorite to listen to because of his scientist background and experience in college education.  His books are a must read.  His book convinced me to go from a large surf bag to a 3 tube bag.  During the lecture, Doc suggested that 20 lb. braid is sufficient for most surf casting.  Many people in the room use 30, 40, even 60 lb. braid.  Doc did a pretty impressive demonstration where he used a scale to replicate the load placed on the line.  Using a volunteer we loaded the line and put a pretty good bend in the rod.  The drag was tightened so that it just was at the point of slippage.  The load measured on the rod was....6lbs.  All in the room agreed that even the 6 lb. load  placed on the rod "felt" like a substantial weight despite what the scale said.  The point is that a reel manufacturer can advertise 50 lbs. of drag but the user is unlikely to ever need that much drag.  a 20 lb. test rated braided line is probably sufficient for nearly all off the beach surf casting (jetty and boat are different).  We know that surf casters sacrifice distance by going to heavier lines.  Did Doc Mueller blow the lid off over built surf casting equipment?  Has he defeated the dogma that we need to be using very heavy lines and massive reels?  Discuss.  It's been rolling around in my head for awhile.  I don't think there is a wrong or right answer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 mins ago, glos said:

In theory, yes. But in practice thicker one holds up much better.

My point is, is that all in our heads?  Have we convinced ourselves of this?  I just checked the book, he suggests 30 lbs in the book.  I could swear he said 20 in the lecture.  Edit:  I checked the other book, he says 20 in the other book.  So either 20 or 30 should be fine.  Situation is open sandy beach.  Not jetty, not boat, strictly presenting bucktails, SP minnows, poppers, bottle plugs, etc.

Edited by fatbikerjoe

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No, its`s the unknowns. In the water, on the bottom, and fish anatomy.

If we fished in our rooms, it really would be more than enough.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 mins ago, glos said:

No, its`s the unknowns. In the water, on the bottom, and fish anatomy.

If we fished in our rooms, it really would be more than enough.

I hear ya, but I'm talking sandy bottom, open beach.  Maybe south shore (Long Island) back bay.  Regardless, shouldn't the leader be taking the brunt of any abrasion?  Isn't that why we put a mono leader on of say 40 or 50 lb.?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

8 hours ago, fatbikerjoe said:

I hear ya, but I'm talking sandy bottom, open beach.  Maybe south shore (Long Island) back bay.  Regardless, shouldn't the leader be taking the brunt of any abrasion?  Isn't that why we put a mono leader on of say 40 or 50 lb.?

 

First, I would note (remind folks) that braided line with super thin & strong GSP materials are truly revolutionary. Just as monofilament was "revolutionary" in the early 60s. 

 

Other than casting distance the reason to use "heavier" breaking point lines isn't so much about the pull one is putting on the fish as it is about "wear" on the line. Thicker is going to be more abrasion resistant. 

 

This applies to all lines used in Striper fishing.

 

Back in the days of monofilament 20 lbs test line was a commonly / frequently used line (and caught many a fish) ... but around rocks & structure 40 or 50 lbs test made a lot of fish catching sense ... both for pulling and abrasion reasons.

 

I currently use 20 & 30 lbs test braid on most of my reels. But I also tie a "shock" cord of 15 feet or so ... of 80 lbs braid on the front end of the spooled line. The thicker line is easier on my finger and much more abrasion resistant for that part of the line the gets the most stress. I did that in my monofilament days ... and I'm doing it now, where I almost exclusively use GSP 8 weaves braids.

 

IMHO ... for your consideration .... thanks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This isn't new news....it's been around for a looooooong time.

 

Some 8lb braids with a pr knot can break in the mid 20's.....where as with a clinch knot will fail at 5

That's great.....truly awesome.........if fishing small payloads with hooks with small barbs with light leaders.

Lowest I'll go is a traditional usa 20lb package rated braid for surfcasting in the northeast using plugs to around 2 or 3 ounces.

And never around structure.  30lb and 40lb are the best do all go an where braids for the surf.  Some break incredibly high and can force fish away from structure.  And some can take some impacts without immediately failing.

 

Additionally The same reel that you fished your 40 and 50lb braid...likely may not lay 8lb braid very well.  Thinner lines will throw off line lay patterns on certain reels.  Same with thicker lines.  Which can then leave you struggling with dig ins or wind knots.

 

Regarding drag...I seriously doubt there are many northeast surfcasters targeting stripers that need anything more than 8 to 10lbs of drag.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, fatbikerjoe said:

String theory:  n physics, string theory is a theoretical framework in which the point-like particles of particle physics are replaced by one-dimensional objects called strings. It describes how these strings propagate through space and interact with each other.

 

Last month, I enjoyed listening to Doc Mueller lecture.  He is one of my favorite to listen to because of his scientist background and experience in college education.  His books are a must read.  His book convinced me to go from a large surf bag to a 3 tube bag.  During the lecture, Doc suggested that 20 lb. braid is sufficient for most surf casting.  Many people in the room use 30, 40, even 60 lb. braid.  Doc did a pretty impressive demonstration where he used a scale to replicate the load placed on the line.  Using a volunteer we loaded the line and put a pretty good bend in the rod.  The drag was tightened so that it just was at the point of slippage.  The load measured on the rod was....6lbs.  All in the room agreed that even the 6 lb. load  placed on the rod "felt" like a substantial weight despite what the scale said.  The point is that a reel manufacturer can advertise 50 lbs. of drag but the user is unlikely to ever need that much drag.  a 20 lb. test rated braided line is probably sufficient for nearly all off the beach surf casting (jetty and boat are different).  We know that surf casters sacrifice distance by going to heavier lines.  Did Doc Mueller blow the lid off over built surf casting equipment?  Has he defeated the dogma that we need to be using very heavy lines and massive reels?  Discuss.  It's been rolling around in my head for awhile.  I don't think there is a wrong or right answer.

Going to say , spoke to , listen to , fished with , to what he has to teach over the last 30 years . I only use 20lb braid main line , my leaders are multiple choices from # 12 - # 50 yes on the same # 20lb Ohero braid , as far as inshore 25 lb drag is enough . You will find out that it is still enough drag for Tarpon , Tuna so as long there is enough line on the spool or your in a boat to

run with 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, fatbikerjoe said:

I hear ya, but I'm talking sandy bottom, open beach.  Maybe south shore (Long Island) back bay.  Regardless, shouldn't the leader be taking the brunt of any abrasion?  Isn't that why we put a mono leader on of say 40 or 50 lb.?

I think its more of if you want to risk using a lesser strength lb test line for a little more distance than losing a big fish that might break your line when it rolls around in the surf.

 

Also thinner lines are harder to tie.

 

Think why people drives a SUV to work everyday wasting gas rather than a scooter?

Edited by foxfai

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting to hear others opinions but 30lb braid has been serving me well with acceptable casting distance and good durability so I see no reason to change.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, scoobydoo said:

This isn't new news....it's been around for a looooooong time.

 

Some 8lb braids with a pr knot can break in the mid 20's.....where as with a clinch knot will fail at 5

That's great.....truly awesome.........if fishing small payloads with hooks with small barbs with light leaders.

Lowest I'll go is a traditional usa 20lb package rated braid for surfcasting in the northeast using plugs to around 2 or 3 ounces.

And never around structure.  30lb and 40lb are the best do all go an where braids for the surf.  Some break incredibly high and can force fish away from structure.  And some can take some impacts without immediately failing.

 

Additionally The same reel that you fished your 40 and 50lb braid...likely may not lay 8lb braid very well.  Thinner lines will throw off line lay patterns on certain reels.  Same with thicker lines.  Which can then leave you struggling with dig ins or wind knots.

 

Regarding drag...I seriously doubt there are many northeast surfcasters targeting stripers that need anything more than 8 to 10lbs of drag.

 

 

 

This.  Fishing big 4 oz+ swimmers on conventional I had an issue with line digging in using 30-50 lb braid on the hook set.  I'm sure some of it has to do with how tight the line is on the spool, but I bumped up to 65-80 and the problem completely goes away.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, fatbikerjoe said:

String theory:  n physics, string theory is a theoretical framework in which the point-like particles of particle physics are replaced by one-dimensional objects called strings. It describes how these strings propagate through space and interact with each other.

 

Last month, I enjoyed listening to Doc Mueller lecture.  He is one of my favorite to listen to because of his scientist background and experience in college education.  His books are a must read.  His book convinced me to go from a large surf bag to a 3 tube bag.  During the lecture, Doc suggested that 20 lb. braid is sufficient for most surf casting.  Many people in the room use 30, 40, even 60 lb. braid.  Doc did a pretty impressive demonstration where he used a scale to replicate the load placed on the line.  Using a volunteer we loaded the line and put a pretty good bend in the rod.  The drag was tightened so that it just was at the point of slippage.  The load measured on the rod was....6lbs.  All in the room agreed that even the 6 lb. load  placed on the rod "felt" like a substantial weight despite what the scale said.  The point is that a reel manufacturer can advertise 50 lbs. of drag but the user is unlikely to ever need that much drag.  a 20 lb. test rated braided line is probably sufficient for nearly all off the beach surf casting (jetty and boat are different).  We know that surf casters sacrifice distance by going to heavier lines.  Did Doc Mueller blow the lid off over built surf casting equipment?  Has he defeated the dogma that we need to be using very heavy lines and massive reels?  Discuss.  It's been rolling around in my head for awhile.  I don't think there is a wrong or right answer.

This is not anything new.

 

There are distinct advantages to fishing light as you noted.  Also distinct disadvantages.  I fish 10 and 20lb braid a lot.  If you go light  - you have to be comfortable losing more gear - simple as that.  For example, 10 braid is a huge advantage fluking but you will break off many more rigs when you are hung up than if you were fishing 20 or 30.   Same thing casting plugs, the lighter you go - the more gear you will lose -  one way or the other. 

 

You have to be VERY careful with light braid, one little nick, ding or chafe and it's ruined.  Peel it all back, start over and you better hope you notice every one because if you don't there goes your next trophy. Not so with 50. Not to mention you only fractionally increase your distance going from  50 to 20.  It does not increase 150% LOL.

 

For me the trade off is worth it, but I can see why other guys do not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to register here in order to participate.

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.