Kanine Kleenup

So if the size limit rises to 35..

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3 mins ago, z-man said:

Actually I am pretty good at math and common sense. During banner years where there were a high number of fish kept then there should also have been a high number of fish released.  2010 shows only like 15% dead release. Did all Anglers join together and decide to kill almost everything they caught that year?  It doesn’t make sense. It looks like the estimating criteria was changed each year or something. 

Once again, the number of fish released that die has NOTHING to do with the number of fish kept. Fish grow every year that they are alive, so one year, when there are lots of sub-legal fish there would probably be a lot more releases than fish kept and in the next year when those fish have reached legal size there might be a lot more fish kept. You simply can't compare dead releases to fish kept, it's apples and oranges.

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1 hour ago, mikez2 said:

 

The only reason I'm beating up on it now is the fact that nobody can shut up about poaching at the canal. My contention is that the rec/com market profit is the driving force behind the grey and black market. 

They wouldn't be taking them if they couldn't sell them.

 

 

The problem with your point here is that theoretically, when what you call the rec/comm season closes, all poaching should end. Comm season over should mean no more grey/black market. Now comm season never closed last year, and won't again this year. But the years when it ended.....the poaching sure didn't.

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7 hours ago, FishermanTim said:

No ID, then arrest and hold while they check your mug shot against EVERY unsolved crime in the area over the past, say...20 years??? Then maybe they suddenly learn to speak English?

Then....after all that you hit them with a fine that covers all the man hours spend checking on them....

 

Works for me.

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1 hour ago, Slappy said:

Same way they model US elections within +-3%.  Polls and modeling. 

 

You know, math n' stuff.

And we found out how accurate polls are right?

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22 mins ago, TonyO said:

The problem with your point here is that theoretically, when what you call the rec/comm season closes, all poaching should end. Comm season over should mean no more grey/black market. Now comm season never closed last year, and won't again this year. But the years when it ended.....the poaching sure didn't.

I don't know. I'm not there. There's no data on how many are poached for me to access.

 

All I know, there is an established market where stripers are sold. The infrastructure is already in place. It's a very short step over the line from legit to blackmarket. 

I'm willing to bet striper was on the menu after the season was closed. I'm willing to bet the same guys buying and selling under the table after it closed were buying and selling legit when it was open.

Without the established infrastructure for buying and selling stripers, poachers would have no market.

That market doesn't go away when the season closes. Landlubbers on vacation don't know the season closed. Served on a plate, they don't know if it had a clipped fin, was undersized or came in the backdoor. They just know striped bass is on the menu.

Eliminate the market, it can't be on the menu, it won't be worth poaching on large scale. 

That's my take anyway.

 

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1 min ago, nateD said:

And we found out how accurate polls are right?

Yes we did, the polls were spot on within the margin of error. The pundits weren't smart enough to understand that.  Thus the problem with math!

 

Seriously though,  I would be happy with a 10% margin of error for fisheries management. they don't have to be exact but they have to tell us the direction the stock is going and its relative size. 

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2 hours ago, MakoMike said:

Obviously you weren't a math major in school :) The dead release is a function of the total number of fish released times 9%, it has NOTHING to do with how many fish were kept. 

 

Obviously you weren't a math major, either.  :box:

 

You assume "meat fishermen" stop after they catch their one keeper, which is hardly ever the case.  They kill their fish, then turn into C&R fishermen.  It's statistically impossible for a strictly C&R fisherman to kill more than a C&R + Meat fisherman.

 

Also, even if they did stop after their one caught keeper, a C&R guy would have to catch 11 fish to equal that one kept, which isn't a typical day by any stretch.    

I would also argue that the 9% figure is fairly high for an experienced angler, too.  

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You can dispute that chart all you want but tell me you don’t agree with the 8-9% mortality rate of released fish. I generally fish single hook bucktails or swim baits and inevitably a rat will swallow it to the gills and even with no barb that fish is crab food. Now multiply that by the multitudes of the white bucket brigade and I bet their release survival rate is only 50 percent at best. Recreational fishermen KILL the most fish whether they want to or not. To deny that is just denial. 

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2 hours ago, MakoMike said:

Once again, the number of fish released that die has NOTHING to do with the number of fish kept. Fish grow every year that they are alive, so one year, when there are lots of sub-legal fish there would probably be a lot more releases than fish kept and in the next year when those fish have reached legal size there might be a lot more fish kept. You simply can't compare dead releases to fish kept, it's apples and oranges.

OK, then you should stop telling us that catch and release fishermen are killing more bass than catch and keep. Next year C&R may only kill 15% according to the inconsistency with the data we’re working with...

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5 hours ago, MakoMike said:

Point is still the same you and fishermen like you kill more fish than the guys who keep their fish. If you really want to insure a much higher chance of survival, its simple, don't fish for them! :)

 

Well I turn every Bass 

 back to the sea and if you keep one it dies........ , I have never met a fisherman who catches his limit and goes home on a hot bite(especially the canal) so on top of killing the fish they harvest they also potentially kill the ones they release according to you’re graph,  All I’m saying is the meal you get out of a bass is not worth killing the fish IMHO and if you honestly are dependent upon the Striped Bass fishery to feed you're family you need to re-evaluate you’re life.

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I'm a 'one and done' meat fisherman...(I guess as being labeled here)

And whether you agree with that mentality, is not for debate. I like to eat fish and I'm not depending on it.

 

The point is, the new size limit will enforce keeping one, much harder to do.

So, I start C&R with 28"...30"...32"... still not there yet...34"???.... keep trying....Ah finally a 35"!!

I just increased the number of fish released....and thus 9 percent died....more died than needed after my first 28" fish.

And I'm now late to work..cuz I only fish canal weekdays....get home to clean the fish...

 

 

 

 

 

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11 hours ago, Slappy said:

Same way they model US elections within +-3%.  Polls and modeling. 

 

You know, math n' stuff.

HAHAHA, that is the best statement made thus far in regards to the topic at hand! To true.... those numbers are so beyond skewed by variations of data collections that I myself being strictly C&R-using almost no treble hooks,using single in-line j's where possible, never baiting for fish, and always keeping fish in the water or handling fish with bare and wet hands can easily say not one of my over 500 bass caught this season from the first fish being in Jan until now has died due to improper handling or poor practice.  I'm not disagreeing with the data in a way when most don't take the extra time or preparations to ensure proper release in which many fish do perish. But to throw a number like 9-12% of all juvenile fish in which are caught and released die is just ludicrous...

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8 hours ago, giggyfish said:

You can dispute that chart all you want but tell me you don’t agree with the 8-9% mortality rate of released fish. I generally fish single hook bucktails or swim baits and inevitably a rat will swallow it to the gills and even with no barb that fish is crab food. Now multiply that by the multitudes of the white bucket brigade and I bet their release survival rate is only 50 percent at best. Recreational fishermen KILL the most fish whether they want to or not. To deny that is just denial. 

If you notice that the presentation you are pitching to juvenile fish is in fact causing harm to them common sense should then kick in (which in 2019 is rare to come across...); you should be making an effort to find a presentation that wont be getting "inhaled" by smaller fish to the point they're choking it...Throw a larger plug on and sort through the smaller less likely fish whom wont bother hitting a larger bait and if they do it wouldn't result in a choke job...But that's just coming from someone who's been there done that..I cant tell you how many times I've sat and "de-Hooked" spooks just in this season alone strictly to watch schoolies toss a spook around versus chancing gill hooking or gut hooking one of those fish.  For me fishing is an escape and is more than just having my rod bent. And I think most of us on here feel that very same way; I cant tell you how many 10+ hr outings I did last year (2018) fall season where I could say I landed a 36-40" fish maybe once out of a time frame of which mentioned above.  But those nights were some of the most memorable due to either conditions, sightings, good friends/making new life long friends...that's what this past-time is supposed to be.. All I've witnessed in my short window of time I've been exposed to the "Striper Community" (for the most part "newer aged fishermen mostly); is that this incredible passion is nothing more than a "Chest-Beating" match.  When guys contradict a fishing story I may have just finished telling; by starting off by listing the number of big fish that they've gotten into or caught in the weeks past i can tell you right then that they've lost my attention... I don't care about that stuff, yeah hooking into nice fish is what we are all about and what we strive for but to make a competition out of something that should be relaxing and self enduring nahhh that's not what being a bass fishermen is all about.

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6 hours ago, FishRatz said:

I'm a 'one and done' meat fisherman...(I guess as being labeled here)

And whether you agree with that mentality, is not for debate. I like to eat fish and I'm not depending on it.

 

The point is, the new size limit will enforce keeping one, much harder to do.

So, I start C&R with 28"...30"...32"... still not there yet...34"???.... keep trying....Ah finally a 35"!!

I just increased the number of fish released....and thus 9 percent died....more died than needed after my first 28" fish.

And I'm now late to work..cuz I only fish canal weekdays....get home to clean the fish...

 

 

 

 

 


I still admire your restraint if you’re telling the truth. No way I would be able to resist casting into a school of huge breaking fish! 
 

Out of curiosity, is this for all species or just SB? 

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I wouldn't mind seeing the price on a bass head come off the wild stock...but what happens when the farm bass are still being put out there for sale...the market for wild fish would still be there through the back doors... we all know education is the best treatment for most but in today's world most don't give a crap.....I never thought I'd live to see another wipe out of bass again..but here we are...who's to blame...we all are so stop pointing your finger at the guy next to you.

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