MudMinnow

President Biden

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13 mins ago, hunter123 said:

 Don't think he works, probably sleep's all day , wakes up eat's mom's food then sleeps again. Probably hates going upstairs to use mom's computer. You know he can't afford one.:laugh:

Without a doubt.

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6 hours ago, MudMinnow said:

That's hilarious. You have not shown any argument. You copy and pasted somene else's arguments. Arguments that were debunked by career historians. D'nesh isn't a historian. He is a journalist and film maker, you know... Fake news.

My argument is about your (in)ability to form an intelligent argument. It is right there and you haven't addressed it yet.

 

It has nothing to do with D'Souza specifically, but if you want to talk about him, you need to talk about what he says and form an intelligent counter argument.

 

Telling us what labels do or don't apply to D'Souza are meaningless

 

On top of that, your appeals the authority are text book examples of logical fallacies

 

The good news is that bad arguments teach us something too

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Santiago II said:

My argument is about your (in)ability to form an intelligent argument. It is right there and you haven't addressed it yet.

 

It has nothing to do with D'Souza specifically, but if you want to talk about him, you need to talk about what he says and form an intelligent counter argument.

 

Telling us what labels do or don't apply to D'Souza are meaningless

 

On top of that, your appeals the authority are text book examples of logical fallacies

 

The good news is that bad arguments teach us something too

 

Maybe, but not D'Souza's. They are just flat out wrong.

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Santiago II said:

All of them?

 

Pick one and tell us why

 

Dinesh says over and over that Nazis were socialists. Yes, at the beginning some of the party did have some socialist policies and used the label. However, Hitler had them ALL murdered. Socialism, communism and anything other than right wing fascism was done and wiped out in Germany. He goes on about Mussolini being socialist. He too went to right wing style fascism. I could go on and on. None of his ideas hold up to actual history. He's not an intellectual as you say and I noticed he throws that word around quite a bit too. If you're smart, and you know it, you don't have to keep saying that you're an intellectual for having a different way of thinking. You can think differently but it doesn't mean you are correct nor an intellectual for that matter. Anyway, I can give you more things he is wrong about. This was just the most blatantly wrong 'intellectual' view points he has.

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7 hours ago, Santiago II said:

My argument is about your (in)ability to form an intelligent argument. It is right there and you haven't addressed it yet.

 

It has nothing to do with D'Souza specifically, but if you want to talk about him, you need to talk about what he says and form an intelligent counter argument.

 

Telling us what labels do or don't apply to D'Souza are meaningless

 

On top of that, your appeals the authority are text book examples of logical fallacies

 

The good news is that bad arguments teach us something too

 

 

 

 

Well said about Silver Surfing Minnow.

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10 hours ago, MudMinnow said:

Dinesh says over and over that Nazis were socialists. Yes, at the beginning some of the party did have some socialist policies and used the label. However, Hitler had them ALL murdered. Socialism, communism and anything other than right wing fascism was done and wiped out in Germany. He goes on about Mussolini being socialist. He too went to right wing style fascism. I could go on and on. None of his ideas hold up to actual history. He's not an intellectual as you say and I noticed he throws that word around quite a bit too. If you're smart, and you know it, you don't have to keep saying that you're an intellectual for having a different way of thinking. You can think differently but it doesn't mean you are correct nor an intellectual for that matter. Anyway, I can give you more things he is wrong about. This was just the most blatantly wrong 'intellectual' view points he has.

So you disagree with D'Souza, and by extension, Jonah Goldberg and many other people who like to hang the title of socialist around the neck of the Nazis. BUT, the Nazi's always considered themselves socialists. They were collectivist and they disdained capitalism. They also believed in government de facto control of the means of production in the state. They also glorified the state over the individual. They were weren't Marxists and they weren't Bernie style democratic socialists, but under a broad definition of socialists, they still meet the definition. They only "right" answer to the question is "it depends on how you define socialism". So it's not an easy answer, and intelligent people can disagree. So you have a point of view. You haven't proven anything, you just gave evidence to support your POV. I'll still fall back on the idea that there's no easy answer to the question. You're entitled to your opinion, but you haven't dis proven anything D'Souza says. You also can't say "none of his ideas hod up to actual history" . You made a counter argument to one idea that he had. You haven't given any evidence to support the claim that all his ideas are wrong. You're also spinning your wheels on words like "intellectual". Labels don't matter, only ideas matter. Keep the ideas coming.

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47 mins ago, Santiago II said:

So you disagree with D'Souza, and by extension, Jonah Goldberg and many other people who like to hang the title of socialist around the neck of the Nazis. BUT, the Nazi's always considered themselves socialists. They were collectivist and they disdained capitalism. They also believed in government de facto control of the means of production in the state. They also glorified the state over the individual. They were weren't Marxists and they weren't Bernie style democratic socialists, but under a broad definition of socialists, they still meet the definition. They only "right" answer to the question is "it depends on how you define socialism". So it's not an easy answer, and intelligent people can disagree. So you have a point of view. You haven't proven anything, you just gave evidence to support your POV. I'll still fall back on the idea that there's no easy answer to the question. You're entitled to your opinion, but you haven't dis proven anything D'Souza says. You also can't say "none of his ideas hod up to actual history" . You made a counter argument to one idea that he had. You haven't given any evidence to support the claim that all his ideas are wrong. You're also spinning your wheels on words like "intellectual". Labels don't matter, only ideas matter. Keep the ideas coming.

1. Wrong. Hitler hated socialism. He wanted no part of it.

2. Wrong. The Nazis were not anywhere near socialists by the time Hitler removed all the left wing factions. He also tried to remove all trade unions and anything that resembled socialism at all. They were considered a totalitarian state and wanted away with socialism, capitalism and communism altogether and base everything on race. He wanted to bring working class Aryans together with the wealthy to make a super Aryan totalitarian state which involved the removal of socialism altogether. It was nothing like socialism at all. Socialism is an organization of class structure and the distribution of wealth. Nazism is based on racial identity and isolating the government. It was all about Germany and the state. Nothing about distributing wealth at all.

 

I've now proven the point many times that D'Souza is wrong. You can continue to say I am wrong all you want but I am not. D'Souza is. He has an agenda. He is known to manipulate information and include his theories about history that are not proven facts. He is not a historian. He has no background in anything related to history. He is a journalist with an English degree. He makes films and propaganda articles. You can choose to believe him or you can believe historians that dedicated their lives to understanding these things. I think a fool would choose to believe Dinesh over well versed historians from many countries and universities with years upon years of experience and all agree upon the same facts.

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3 hours ago, MudMinnow said:

1. Wrong. Hitler hated socialism. He wanted no part of it.

2. Wrong. The Nazis were not anywhere near socialists by the time Hitler removed all the left wing factions. He also tried to remove all trade unions and anything that resembled socialism at all. They were considered a totalitarian state and wanted away with socialism, capitalism and communism altogether and base everything on race. He wanted to bring working class Aryans together with the wealthy to make a super Aryan totalitarian state which involved the removal of socialism altogether. It was nothing like socialism at all. Socialism is an organization of class structure and the distribution of wealth. Nazism is based on racial identity and isolating the government. It was all about Germany and the state. Nothing about distributing wealth at all.

 

I've now proven the point many times that D'Souza is wrong. You can continue to say I am wrong all you want but I am not. D'Souza is. He has an agenda. He is known to manipulate information and include his theories about history that are not proven facts. He is not a historian. He has no background in anything related to history. He is a journalist with an English degree. He makes films and propaganda articles. You can choose to believe him or you can believe historians that dedicated their lives to understanding these things. I think a fool would choose to believe Dinesh over well versed historians from many countries and universities with years upon years of experience and all agree upon the same facts.

You have not proven anything.

Edited by D_L

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4 hours ago, MudMinnow said:

1. Wrong. Hitler hated socialism. He wanted no part of it.

2. Wrong. The Nazis were not anywhere near socialists by the time Hitler removed all the left wing factions. He also tried to remove all trade unions and anything that resembled socialism at all. They were considered a totalitarian state and wanted away with socialism, capitalism and communism altogether and base everything on race. He wanted to bring working class Aryans together with the wealthy to make a super Aryan totalitarian state which involved the removal of socialism altogether. It was nothing like socialism at all. Socialism is an organization of class structure and the distribution of wealth. Nazism is based on racial identity and isolating the government. It was all about Germany and the state. Nothing about distributing wealth at all.

 

I've now proven the point many times that D'Souza is wrong. You can continue to say I am wrong all you want but I am not. D'Souza is. He has an agenda. He is known to manipulate information and include his theories about history that are not proven facts. He is not a historian. He has no background in anything related to history. He is a journalist with an English degree. He makes films and propaganda articles. You can choose to believe him or you can believe historians that dedicated their lives to understanding these things. I think a fool would choose to believe Dinesh over well versed historians from many countries and universities with years upon years of experience and all agree upon the same facts.

The only way your argument works is if you use a very narrow definition of socialism. Nazis believed in the national control of the means of production, churches, education....and they considered that socialism. If you don't think that's socialism, that's on you. But your opinion isn't a proof.

 

That being the case, this is a contentious issue. People disagree about it

 

You're still committing all the same logical errors and fallacies, over and over again.

 

You haven't proven any points. All you're doing is making and argument.

 

You continue the name calling. That proves nothing. It does nothing to negate an argument.

 

You can't appeal to an authority as a proof of a point, or deny someone's authority to dismiss their opinion.

 

 

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, D_L said:

You have not proven anything.

D.L. muddy doesn't even know why Germany was more a socialist  country than the dictator uncle Joe turned Russia into. Ready,muddy. Even in Nazi Germany , even under  dolf, You could own your own business . In Russia the state owned everything. Like I said Read, think before you post, think again, then cancel it. Russia was way more to the right than Germany.:rav: This lunatic has to go.:beatin:

Edited by hunter123
Lunatic has to go

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5 hours ago, Santiago II said:

The only way your argument works is if you use a very narrow definition of socialism. Nazis believed in the national control of the means of production, churches, education....and they considered that socialism. If you don't think that's socialism, that's on you. But your opinion isn't a proof.

 

That being the case, this is a contentious issue. People disagree about it

 

You're still committing all the same logical errors and fallacies, over and over again.

 

You haven't proven any points. All you're doing is making and argument.

 

You continue the name calling. That proves nothing. It does nothing to negate an argument.

 

You can't appeal to an authority as a proof of a point, or deny someone's authority to dismiss their opinion.

 

 

 

 

 

Germany did before Hitler took control. I have proven points. Hitler's Germany, Nazis, were not socialist. No logical errors or fallacies. That's your ballpark.

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9 hours ago, D_L said:

You have not proven anything.

No, I have not. History and facts have. You disregarding them does not make you correct. I think this argument is over. You choose not to believe reality and rather put your faith in charlatans. 

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