codfish

Its looking like 1 fish at 35 inches, new rules

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4 hours ago, z-man said:

It says “males in Chesapeake Bay may forego migration.” I’ve never seen anything that says all males stay in the Bay. I find it hard to believe that all of the millions of schoolies in New England are all female. 

Me too. 

 

4 hours ago, bob_G said:

And let me guess, the clams they were growing on those leases, were not clams native to the area. Hence, they had no natural resistance to local shellfish diseases.

Yep

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rob,i would differently disagree with you on the gillnet ban sparking the Florida aquaculture industry.most of the guys that started the aqua culture of clams in Fla were good friends of mine,most were from LI that come to fla in the early 80's to clam the Indian River from Coco Beach to Sebastian,when the ACOE opened the flood gates in Melbourne in 86 I think it killed the river.this is when a bunch went to the west coast to start raising clams.funny thing is that a good portion of the netters were from LI that came to FLA in the late 60's

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Could anybody link some study on catch and release survival rate on striped bass. we are a bunch of  fly fishermen from Denmark who go to cape cod to fish stripers and we are almost 100 % catch and release. We take 1 fish per stip 4-6 guys share this fish for a home dinner each trip. Im very sad to hear that the fish we catch die. could somebody help me with some facts on the catch and release death ratio. Cause the fish i release look like they will survive, but if scientific research show that most of the fish i catch die. I will stop coming to cape cod to fish after stripers

 

Lars H

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16 mins ago, wikinglars said:

Could anybody link some study on catch and release survival rate on striped bass. we are a bunch of  fly fishermen from Denmark who go to cape cod to fish stripers and we are almost 100 % catch and release. We take 1 fish per stip 4-6 guys share this fish for a home dinner each trip. Im very sad to hear that the fish we catch die. could somebody help me with some facts on the catch and release death ratio. Cause the fish i release look like they will survive, but if scientific research show that most of the fish i catch die. I will stop coming to cape cod to fish after stripers

 

Lars H

Lars the estimate isn't most fish die it's 9% . I imagine most of that 9% are gut hooked and the others mis handled. 9% is probably in line with release mortality for most fish species caught around the world. 

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11 mins ago, alpha baiter said:

Lars the estimate isn't most fish die it's 9% . I imagine most of that 9% are gut hooked and the others mis handled. 9% is probably in line with release mortality for most fish species caught around the world. 

With the understanding that it's an average. 

Bait fishermen and the most gentle barbless flyfishermen will have different results. 

Two guys with the same gear might be different how they handle fish.

Different conditions matter. Winter holdovers and hot weather fish up river or inner harbor will not do as well even with gentle anglers. 

And we all know lots get dropped, kicked, rolled in sand and endlessly photographed, even by C&R fly guys.

 

All that gets added together and the estimate is 9%. It's not exact but it a guideline. 

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1 min ago, mikez2 said:

With the understanding that it's an average. 

Bait fishermen and the most gentle barbless flyfishermen will have different results. 

Two guys with the same gear might be different how they handle fish.

Different conditions matter. Winter holdovers and hot weather fish up river or inner harbor will not do as well even with gentle anglers. 

And we all know lots get dropped, kicked, rolled in sand and endlessly photographed, even by C&R fly guys.

 

All that gets added together and the estimate is 9%. It's not exact but it a guideline. 

Very well stated Mike. 

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22 mins ago, wikinglars said:

Could anybody link some study on catch and release survival rate on striped bass. we are a bunch of  fly fishermen from Denmark who go to cape cod to fish stripers and we are almost 100 % catch and release. We take 1 fish per stip 4-6 guys share this fish for a home dinner each trip. Im very sad to hear that the fish we catch die. could somebody help me with some facts on the catch and release death ratio. Cause the fish i release look like they will survive, but if scientific research show that most of the fish i catch die. I will stop coming to cape cod to fish after stripers

 

Lars H

Here’s a pretty good write up with a non commercial link.  It summarizes the studies where the 8% mortality rate came from.  The leading cause of mortality is deeply hooked fish. Start on page 8 and follow those guidelines to minimize mortality. 

 

If if I were you, i’d continue fishing the cape.  You guys are throwing flies, and i’m sure hardly ever gut hook fish.  You may want to beef up your leaders, keep the fight time to a minimum, and release the fish as quickly as possible (no 10 minute photo shoots).  

 

https://www.monmouth.edu/uci/documents/2018/10/best-practices-striped-bass-catch-and-release-report.pdf/

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Hi Fitzy

 

Thx a lot sounded like all died, but we are all flyfishermen with our upbringing in the danish sea run brown trout tradition, where we handle the fish very carefully. We fish from the coast both in Denmark and cape cod. We release most of them in the water if possible. We all have strong leader and we, i must admit take quick fotos of the big ones, maybe 20 seconds out of the water. If they are tired we use the same method as at home. By the tail we push them forward and back, too give them oxygen. Works with trout, should with stripers too. We hold the tail intill they start being lively again. Going to cape cod start june next year. Cant wait. WE absolutely love it. 1 suggestion from a foreign striper fisher. WE would still come if it was 1 over 35, we would still come if it was all catch and release. We will not come if its only 4 days a week. we will not come if there is no fish or only small fish.We would love to pay a lot more for a fishing permit if the moneys goes to studies and regulation, control and conservation. Same problem everywhere also here in Denmark. Money talks and logic fails. We should make a world wide fishermen conservation organisation.

 

Lars H

Edited by wikinglars

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2 hours ago, wikinglars said:

Could anybody link some study on catch and release survival rate on striped bass. we are a bunch of  fly fishermen from Denmark who go to cape cod to fish stripers and we are almost 100 % catch and release. We take 1 fish per stip 4-6 guys share this fish for a home dinner each trip. Im very sad to hear that the fish we catch die. could somebody help me with some facts on the catch and release death ratio. Cause the fish i release look like they will survive, but if scientific research show that most of the fish i catch die. I will stop coming to cape cod to fish after stripers

 

Lars H

This is the study that the 9% release mortality estimate is based on: https://afspubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1577/1548-8659(1996)125<0300%3AMOSBHA>2.3.CO%3B2 Note that there are other studies that estimate the release mortality at much higher rates depending on water/air temp and salinity. 

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2 hours ago, MakoMike said:

This is the study that the 9% release mortality estimate is based on: https://afspubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1577/1548-8659(1996)125<0300%3AMOSBHA>2.3.CO%3B2 Note that there are other studies that estimate the release mortality at much higher rates depending on water/air temp and salinity. 

It took a bit of work to download that study- at first I could only read the abstract.  The other studies that Diodati sited were conducted in fresh water where there was poor water quality conditions that lead to fungal and bacterial infections.  He also mentioned that there may have been a food supply shortage during his study.  This was also conducted about 30 years ago.  I wonder if there's any new data out there.

 

I guess the important facts to take away from the study are: we all kill fish no matter how careful we are, but the more care we take, the better the chances of survival.  

 

The table below summarizes the mortality in the study.  The glaring effects of survival are deep hooking, and lures vs bait.

 

Capture.PNG.11af9fcc908a50c0c665a5f82e7d4918.PNG

 

 

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8 hours ago, wikinglars said:

Could anybody link some study on catch and release survival rate on striped bass. we are a bunch of  fly fishermen from Denmark who go to cape cod to fish stripers and we are almost 100 % catch and release. We take 1 fish per stip 4-6 guys share this fish for a home dinner each trip. Im very sad to hear that the fish we catch die. could somebody help me with some facts on the catch and release death ratio. Cause the fish i release look like they will survive, but if scientific research show that most of the fish i catch die. I will stop coming to cape cod to fish after stripers

 

Lars H

Lars,

Being a fly fisherman myself, rest assured, you and your group are not the problem. Speaking for myself, I know that 99% of my fly caught fish are mouth or lip hooked.  Crushing the Barb's on your hooks will further facilitate a safe and harmless release.

So I hope you and your group continue to come to the Cape and enjoy our amazing fishery.

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10 hours ago, wikinglars said:

Hi Fitzy

 

Thx a lot sounded like all died, but we are all flyfishermen with our upbringing in the danish sea run brown trout tradition, where we handle the fish very carefully. We fish from the coast both in Denmark and cape cod. We release most of them in the water if possible. We all have strong leader and we, i must admit take quick fotos of the big ones, maybe 20 seconds out of the water. If they are tired we use the same method as at home. By the tail we push them forward and back, too give them oxygen. Works with trout, should with stripers too. We hold the tail intill they start being lively again. Going to cape cod start june next year. Cant wait. WE absolutely love it. 1 suggestion from a foreign striper fisher. WE would still come if it was 1 over 35, we would still come if it was all catch and release. We will not come if its only 4 days a week. we will not come if there is no fish or only small fish.We would love to pay a lot more for a fishing permit if the moneys goes to studies and regulation, control and conservation. Same problem everywhere also here in Denmark. Money talks and logic fails. We should make a world wide fishermen conservation organisation.

 

Lars H

I share many of the same thoughts. I don’t travel from quite as far away but it’s still 10hrs each way for me. If it goes to 1@35” it won’t change my plans too much. I’ll still probably spend as much time/money there as I can afford  to visiting the cape.  The only thing that will probably change is I’ll be less likely to keep any fish (currently about 2 a year). A 28-32” fish is about the size I want to keep and the closer they get to 40” the less I want to eat them. When I factor the cost of lodging and fuel to make the trip, if I need to spend a couple extra bucks at P.J.’s or Seafood Sams that’s fine with me.  

 

As for the 9% C+R mort rate, I think we have to look at it as an average. Those who handle fish quickly and efficiently are going to be well below that and the goons keeping fish out of the water way longer than necessary, dropping them on the rocks then throwing them back without reviving so they don’t have to get their feet wet are going to be well above the 9%. To further way Bob said, I suspect as a fly fisherman using mostly single hook offerings your mort rate is about as close to 0% as possible. I suspect circle hooks may help on the bait end of things. I don’t like it personally because I won’t be able to use rigged eels anymore (I’ve never gut hooked a fish on a riggie) but so few people use them I doubt there will be any exception in the new regs. 

 

These are just my opinions as a fishing tourist, but I know the livelihoods of a lot of people depend on this fishery and I’d hate to see it collapse again. I do know that I’m a way better surfcaster than I was 10 years ago, but these nights I’m working a whole lot harder for a lot fewer quality fish then I was then. Comparing my 2019 results to my 2009 results is seriously depressing. The answer lies in finding a balance between sustainable commercial harvest, recreational harvest (which will remain unknown as long as everyone is allowed 1 a day) and enforcement but I’m nowhere near smart enough to know where that balance lies. Hoping for the best. 

 

Chris 

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On 10/7/2019 at 6:22 PM, bob_G said:

Understood, and point well taken.

But I think a month long closed season would ruin local tackle shop and charter businesses. Most could not survive losing a month of prime income.

Mortality among c&r anglers is high, I get it. But mortality is 100% each time guys decide to take home fish on each trip. I still contend a huge quantity of recreationally caught fish ultimately end up freezer burned and eventually in the trash. :(

And a collapse of the stock has what effect on charters

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Its actually  frightening how much information is kept ant transponded through an EZ-Pass. Thats an easy solution to the license  issue. An EPO could drive the service road at around 20 mph and the system could count how many actively licensed fisherman in a row of ten, 1 meter apart. 40 yards before the epo reaches the row. The technology is available and cheap. Just saying.

 

Battery life is about 8 to 10 years with the transponders. 

 

Heck, you could require license numbers worn on the backs and software already exist to identify the license numbers and scan the body build of the angler who the license belongs to in .00009 seconds

Edited by FEW3
JS

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