codfish

Its looking like 1 fish at 35 inches, new rules

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23 mins ago, mikez2 said:

Talk to me in 5 years if we do nothing. 

I'm willing to bet if they pass 35" it will improve in less than 5 years.

I lived the last set of regs. Heard the charters and party boats predict the end (was the best thing ever happened to the industry). I heard the meat fishermen claim their families would go hungry.

I saw how fast it recovered with my own eyes.  It's not some abstract talking point. That's why it's frustrating to hear so much negativity. 

I really believe it's from commercial interests. 

Of course its mostly for commercial interests...you'd be dumb if you didn't believe that.  Most of the eastern seaboard in which this species inhabits unfortunately is also exposed to some of the most corrupt politics in the game... In a politicians mind this fish is worth more dead than alive but if they took half a minute to really look at the broader spectrum they'd see just the opposite.  Yet when push comes to shove; law enforcement and local politics are whats holding this fishery back from making a remarkable come-back to what was seen back in the "Good Ol' Days".

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i think a big part of why it worked last time is there was no fish allowed for anyone.  i think that's then only way it’ll “work” again.  once the population is “restored”, put in the 1@36” rec again and keep it there.  its the 1@28” that kills too many before they can breed and started the quick demise this time.

 

for comms - if you can prove material economic impact - aka, you got over x% of your combined revenue from stripers in 2018 and or 2019 (?) then you can fish for them comm w/ 10@36” on y days / week or whatever... but - if you really wanna address the issue in a way that’ll actually work - close the fishery for a stretch again.  nobody can keep anything makes it obvious if there’s any poaching going on.

 

i also think some sort of “civilian enforcement team” should be created - one with some authority to seize gear, slap files etc... something like the USCG auxiliary etc - people out there keeping the potential non abiders abiding...

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There really oughta be a separate thread for poachers. 

Obviously it's the number one topic in this forum it would seem. 

I just don't think using poachers as an excuse to avoid painful regs makes sense.

 

I'd like a separate thread on poachers, prolly already is one I guess, but one not linked to the proposed length limit.

 

I don't boat fish, avoid the canal at great pain of begging from my kid and spend more salt time in Maine or Rhode Island salt. I see occasional shorts snuck out on a small scale, same as I did at the mouth of the Merrimack in 1990.

But I don't see the poaching horror show you guys describe from the canal nor have a sense of what's really going on in federal water.

 

The grey area stuff is what really irritates me. 

Worse, way too many guys here are accepting of grey area crap if it comes around rec/com or high end charter business. 

 

Talk about poaching. I want to learn more.

Why isn't it poaching to work loopholes in the commercial regs to earm $$$ from a hobby?

 

If we know rec C&R mortality accounts for a huge percentage of harvest, why isn't it poaching when a charter captain puts his rich sports "accidentally" on cow bass in federal water after getting blanked by tuna?

 

The enforcement question appears to be key.

How about the saltwater license? What does that $10.00 buy?

I'd pay 3 xs that for my license if it went to hiring and training EPOs.

 

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From what I understand, stripers do not spawn until they reach 30" generally. Why would we allow ourselves to take a fish for the table that has not had the chance to spawn yet. If we can make the length greater than the average spawn length we will be more able to find a sustainable fishery for the striped bass. The bass came back and we all ruined it!! Let's not do it again. No matter how much the fishery rebounds we should never take fish from the water that have not had the opportunity to spawn.

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30 mins ago, mikez2 said:

This cracks me up.

I assume you are a young guy spoiled recently at the canal. 

 

I got news.

35 inch stripers are not easy to catch, even with the internet. 

The canal thing with the mackerel frenzies will not be reliable all season, every season. 

 

A 35 inch limit addresses the law abiding rec fishermen who honor the recource too much to make a whore out of it. The majority of us. 

The guy who might respectfully legally keep a fish for his own table but would never consider killing them to fund his hobby.

 

Those are the majority of the fishermen out there. Screw the canal, screw Block.

In places where rec/com don't gather, that stuff does not happen. I never, ever see it.

 

If poachers can't sell their fish, they have no incentive to poach large scale. The guy who sneaks a 34" when no one is looking is not the problem. It's the guys selling. That's the law most in need of change. 

LoL.  I wish I was young and spoiled.  I have been fishing stripers seriously for 25 yrs.  Been around long enough to know what good fishing is.  100% C&R and always have been.  As passionate about the sport and fish as anyone.  I fish from Plum Island, MA to IBSP in Jersey and everywhere in between so I can see the state of the fishery with my own eyes.  Have a solid network of good fisherman that are seeing the same as I am.  I only fish the canal maybe 6-8 times a year just to get my fill.  The canal problem is going to work itself out so I agree it will not be relaible into the future.  They will all be dead soon enough.  I disagree about stripers not being easy to catch.  Maybe not so much in recent years but that is only because the fishery is clearly not healthy.  

 

The real problem as I see it is the ASMFC is calling for only an 18% reduction in harvest.  Going to 1 @ 35" for recs will achieve that result in the best case scenario, which will never happen.  Just like the reduction 2 years ago or whenever it was from 2 fish to 1 clearly did not work.  Wasn't that supposed to be like a 20-25% reduction in mortality or something close to that?  Sorry getting old.  Based on what I am seeing we need more than an 18% reduction for recs to fix the problem with Stripers.  

 

Recs should not be allowed 1 fish every day, period.  If it was my decision we would go to tag based system or some other creative way to enforce this.  Isn't everyone fishing the salt supposed to buy a fishing permit?  When you buy your permit for $10 you get a certain number of tags with your name to fill per year.  Let the so called experts set the size limit and number of tags per year.   No tag = no fish.  The poachers are still going to poach and the dirtbags will still keep fish.  Only way to solve that problem is with real penalties.  Hopefully most fisherman would follow the rules.

 

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Posted (edited) · Report post

Lets face it, hand slapping is part of the poaching problem ( and lack of interest to enforce.) .  Routine poaching exists because it's profitable and risks are low.

Lets just make poaching a manditory(!) $1000 /fish fine for everyone.  $2500/ fish and loss of all equipment / boat for second offfense.  

Edited by WeeHooker

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6 hours ago, frezzy said:

LoL.  I wish I was young and spoiled.  I have been fishing stripers seriously for 25 yrs.  Been around long enough to know what good fishing is.  100% C&R and always have been.  As passionate about the sport and fish as anyone.  I fish from Plum Island, MA to IBSP in Jersey and everywhere in between so I can see the state of the fishery with my own eyes.  Have a solid network of good fisherman that are seeing the same as I am.  I only fish the canal maybe 6-8 times a year just to get my fill.  The canal problem is going to work itself out so I agree it will not be relaible into the future.  They will all be dead soon enough.  I disagree about stripers not being easy to catch.  Maybe not so much in recent years but that is only because the fishery is clearly not healthy.  

 

The real problem as I see it is the ASMFC is calling for only an 18% reduction in harvest.  Going to 1 @ 35" for recs will achieve that result in the best case scenario, which will never happen.  Just like the reduction 2 years ago or whenever it was from 2 fish to 1 clearly did not work.  Wasn't that supposed to be like a 20-25% reduction in mortality or something close to that?  Sorry getting old.  Based on what I am seeing we need more than an 18% reduction for recs to fix the problem with Stripers.  

 

Recs should not be allowed 1 fish every day, period.  If it was my decision we would go to tag based system or some other creative way to enforce this.  Isn't everyone fishing the salt supposed to buy a fishing permit?  When you buy your permit for $10 you get a certain number of tags with your name to fill per year.  Let the so called experts set the size limit and number of tags per year.   No tag = no fish.  The poachers are still going to poach and the dirtbags will still keep fish.  Only way to solve that problem is with real penalties.  Hopefully most fisherman would follow the rules.

 

You make some very good points and like you wish we would come up with a tag system along with only allowed to fish four days a week for bass , like the commercial only get to fish two days a week . The only way to increase the awareness and importance of poaching is to make any violations a crime against the environment through a legislative act and put some meat behind the enforcement that is adjudicated by the court system

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6 hours ago, frezzy said:

 

 

Recs should not be allowed 1 fish every day, period.  If it was my decision we would go to tag based system or some other creative way to enforce this.  Isn't everyone fishing the salt supposed to buy a fishing permit?  When you buy your permit for $10 you get a certain number of tags with your name to fill per year.  Let the so called experts set the size limit and number of tags per year.   No tag = no fish.  The poachers are still going to poach and the dirtbags will still keep fish.  Only way to solve that problem is with real penalties.  Hopefully most fisherman would follow the rules.

 

I've always thought tags would be the easiest way to go. Could just print it at the bottom of your lic. With matching number so there's no shinanigans with gathering others tags. 1 fish a day is a heck of a lot of fish to eat. 6 tags a season. Poaching will always happen of course but it makes it easier to stop as well. If you harvest a deer and a warden comes by and it's not tagged.......I forgot or I was just about to do it isn't going to cut it not in Maine anyway. Should be the same with tagged bass. Thankfully I've never seen the type of poaching you guys in the canal do. My stock line to anyone with or near me about keeping a undersized fish "I'm not paying $500 for a fish sandwich" 

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21 mins ago, Angler #1 said:

You make some very good points and like you wish we would come up with a tag system along with only allowed to fish four days a week for bass , like the commercial only get to fish two days a week . The only way to increase the awareness and importance of poaching is to make any violations a crime against the environment through a legislative act and put some meat behind the enforcement that is adjudicated by the court system

We already have an organization in place that posses all the tools nessesary to enforce the crimes against the environment. They're called the Ma Environmental Police.

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Posted (edited) · Report post

27 mins ago, alpha baiter said:

I've always thought tags would be the easiest way to go. Could just print it at the bottom of your lic. With matching number so there's no shinanigans with gathering others tags. 1 fish a day is a heck of a lot of fish to eat. 6 tags a season. Poaching will always happen of course but it makes it easier to stop as well. If you harvest a deer and a warden comes by and it's not tagged.......I forgot or I was just about to do it isn't going to cut it not in Maine anyway. Should be the same with tagged bass. Thankfully I've never seen the type of poaching you guys in the canal do. My stock line to anyone with or near me about keeping a undersized fish "I'm not paying $500 for a fish sandwich" 

The easiest, most effective way to go is to have a closed season, when no one is allowed to even fish for striped bass. Tags would be a nightmare to enforce and the cost of the bureaucracy would be prohibitive. No fishing for striped bass between say July 15th and Aug. 15th would be much more effective. Remember most of the mortality is coming from C&R fishermen.

Edited by MakoMike

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3 mins ago, MakoMike said:

The easiest, most effective way to go is to have a closed season, when no one is allowed to even fish for striped bass. Tags would be a nightmare to enforce and the cost of the bureaucracy would be prohibitive. No fishing for striped bass between say July 15th and Aug. 15th would be much more effective. Remember most of the mortality is coming from C&R fishermen.

I'm fishing for blues not stripers officer ;)

 

There's no perfect answer but closed season is fine by me. The tags would only be enforced when epo decided too much like the current laws. Would just make catching violators a little easier imo

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3 mins ago, MakoMike said:

The easiest, most effective way to go is to have a closed season, when no one is allowed to even fish for striped bass. Tags would be a nightmare to enforce and the cost of the bureaucracy would be prohibitive. No fishing for striped bass between say July 15th and Aug. 15th would be much more effective. Remember most of the mortality is coming from C&R fishermen.

I think you're into something. But I think the local economic impact would be devestating. 

However, what about no possession from July 15- August 15? Easy to enforce. Still allows everyone an opportunity to fish.

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5 mins ago, bob_G said:

I think you're into something. But I think the local economic impact would be devestating. 

However, what about no possession from July 15- August 15? Easy to enforce. Still allows everyone an opportunity to fish.

As you may or may not know I am, and have been for some time, into this whole fishery management thing. Seasons are the most effective way of curtailing the catch, for all species, not just stripers. But with stripers you have the added inducement that most of the mortality comes from C&R fishermen. Enforceabilility would be no different from what goes on today in the eez, yes some would claim to be fishing for bluefish, cunners, scup, etc. etc. but if the EPO sees them catch one or two stripers and they go back to doing the same thing, a ticket will be upheld in court. 

 

Local economic impact might not be as bad as you think, since people could fish for anything but striped bass and the closed season would not coincide with the peak of the spring or fall run. I just picked the dates at random, but the closed season should not be during the peak of the spring or fall run and it should be when the fish are readily available, not for the month of December.

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