codfish

Its looking like 1 fish at 35 inches, new rules

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211 posts in this topic

2 mins ago, pogie_boy said:

More reasons my 1@50" idea is superior:
* people out to bring one home every time will give up when they don't repeatedly - reducing the number of people fishing for stripers

* people who really want to catch and keep one will be more inclined to pay a charter captain to get them one, keeping that industry afloat, possibly augmenting it.

* tackle shops can jump on the bandwagon with manufacturers to hawk every next best thing in lures assuring people it will catch them that 50" fish

* Knowing that the big fish are "out there" will sell more boats, high end tackle, etc..

We need to be realistic guys.  Getting people to stop fishing is not the answer.  You still need to give people that want to keep a fish for the table the chance to do so (and I'm 100% C&R).  There is nothing wrong with that, but it can't be every day!  With the amount of fishing pressure up and down the coast this fishery can no longer support 1 fish of any size being taken daily.  I'm sure there are examples in other fisheries on how to accomplish this.  Maybe it's a tag system or some type of closed season on possession for a period of time.  I don't know that answer, but 1 fish a day needs to go away until the stock has a chance to rebuild itself.     

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6 mins ago, frezzy said:

We need to be realistic guys.  Getting people to stop fishing is not the answer.  You still need to give people that want to keep a fish for the table the chance to do so (and I'm 100% C&R).  There is nothing wrong with that, but it can't be every day!  With the amount of fishing pressure up and down the coast this fishery can no longer support 1 fish of any size being taken daily.  I'm sure there are examples in other fisheries on how to accomplish this.  Maybe it's a tag system or some type of closed season on possession for a period of time.  I don't know that answer, but 1 fish a day needs to go away until the stock has a chance to rebuild itself.     

I disagree.   If C&R mortality is indeed a major contributor to the decline and it is due to the increased number of anglers fishing, reducing the number of people fishing is the best vector if not the only vector which can have a significant effect..       

My plan costs $0 to implement as just raising the minimum size limit is already within the framework of the existing system.    It effectively makes Stripers a catch and Release with trophy option fishery without any legislation.     

Sure, if you like move the limit to 46"   but all that will do is push ever more people into places like the canal and breachways where fish of that size are seasonably abundant and vulnerable. 

 

Force people to use gigantic baits on the bottom instead of pencil popping to schoolies and 30" fish.   Make people hate fishing for stripers.   If you really care about the fishery, then you would want to find the most effective means possible that would have a chance of actually being implemented.  Stop the fishing, stop the overfishing.   

 

I do like the idea of closing the season and only opening it for posession in certain months.  It will take years upon years to get people to do it, but it's not a bad idea.

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18 mins ago, pogie_boy said:

I disagree.   If C&R mortality is indeed a major contributor to the decline and it is due to the increased number of anglers fishing, reducing the number of people fishing is the best vector if not the only vector which can have a significant effect..       

My plan costs $0 to implement as just raising the minimum size limit is already within the framework of the existing system.    It effectively makes Stripers a catch and Release with trophy option fishery without any legislation.     

Sure, if you like move the limit to 46"   but all that will do is push ever more people into places like the canal and breachways where fish of that size are seasonably abundant and vulnerable. 

 

Force people to use gigantic baits on the bottom instead of pencil popping to schoolies and 30" fish.   Make people hate fishing for stripers.   If you really care about the fishery, then you would want to find the most effective means possible that would have a chance of actually being implemented.  Stop the fishing, stop the overfishing.   

 

I do like the idea of closing the season and only opening it for posession in certain months.  It will take years upon years to get people to do it, but it's not a bad idea.

While I agree with you directionally i do have a couple of comments. I agree that we need seasons, season are the single most effect tool in the fishery management tool box But we need to 1) close the season when the fish are locally available, closing th season for January and February isn't going to get us squat. 2) prohibit all fishing for them. Most states prohibit all fishing or all species when the season is closed, except for striped bass. Since C&R fishing for stripers is so popular and responsible for the majority of the fishing mortality, it's time to bite the bullet and impose some controls on C&R fishing. 

 

Whatever comes out of the ASMFC is only a recommendation to the states, albeit with some coercive powers. Some states, I think NJ is one, will require legislation to amend the rules. 

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34 mins ago, MakoMike said:

Most states prohibit all fishing or all species when the season is closed, except for striped bass. Since C&R fishing for stripers is so popular and responsible for the majority of the fishing mortality, it's time to bite the bullet and impose some controls on C&R fishing. 

 

Whatever comes out of the ASMFC is only a recommendation to the states, albeit with some coercive powers. Some states, I think NJ is one, will require legislation to amend the rules. 

Agree in principle, but, as always, there are confounding circumstances that need to be addressed.

  1. With a severely limited recreational cod "season" in the Gulf of Maine, Sept 15 - 30, cod fishing is NOT banned anywhere in the GOM, since it shares too many grounds and techniques with other, in season groundfish.  The fisheries management team on cod have figured in recreational discard mortality into the recreational quota to address this.. 

    Along most of the stripers' range, folks can always say they're fishing for bluefish, weakfish, Spanish mackerel, etc., so how exactly would you propose structuring closed C&R fishing seasons?  I can't think of one unless it's a TOTAL ban on recreational fishing, something that would go over with all stakeholders like a fart in church.  Regardless of that, there isn't a single member of ASMFC that has the enforcement capabilities to keep up with a NO FISHING allowed restriction.  
     
  2. Unless ASMFC has recently armed itself with small, tactical thermonuclear devices, I wonder if they have enough coercive firepower to take on NJ, who have often decided to do things "their way" with bass and other ASMFC managed species, and Virginia isn't too far away from "secession" either as witnessed by their Menhaden moves.

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1 hour ago, Roccus7 said:

Agree in principle, but, as always, there are confounding circumstances that need to be addressed.

  1. With a severely limited recreational cod "season" in the Gulf of Maine, Sept 15 - 30, cod fishing is NOT banned anywhere in the GOM, since it shares too many grounds and techniques with other, in season groundfish.  The fisheries management team on cod have figured in recreational discard mortality into the recreational quota to address this.. 

Agreed, it's a situation that I am very familiar with. FWIW, the preliminary MRIP numbers indicate that the number of recreational haddock trips are down this year compared to last year, so there is some hope that the release mortality on cod will also be down so that we get a slightly longer cod season for 2020. I'll know more in a couple of weeks after the RAP meeting on the 12th.

 

1 hour ago, Roccus7 said:

Along most of the stripers' range, folks can always say they're fishing for bluefish, weakfish, Spanish mackerel, etc., so how exactly would you propose structuring closed C&R fishing seasons?  I can't think of one unless it's a TOTAL ban on recreational fishing, something that would go over with all stakeholders like a fart in church.  Regardless of that, there isn't a single member of ASMFC that has the enforcement capabilities to keep up with a NO FISHING allowed restriction.  

I agree enforcement would be difficult, though no more difficult than enforcing the exact same rules in all federal waters.  I know that there has been periodic enforcement of the no fishing for striper rules in the transit zone around Block Island in the last several years. I believe there has also been some enforcement efforts in the states of VA and NC in recent yers, but I don't know the details.

 

1 hour ago, Roccus7 said:

 

  1. Unless ASMFC has recently armed itself with small, tactical thermonuclear devices, I wonder if they have enough coercive firepower to take on NJ, who have often decided to do things "their way" with bass and other ASMFC managed species, and Virginia isn't too far away from "secession" either as witnessed by their Menhaden moves.

If you were listening to the menhaden board meeting yesterday you heard the VA commissioners on the ASMFC all but beg for an out-of-compliance finding recommendation from the board and the board obliged them. We'll see what happens. NJ beat the last out-of-compliance finding at the Secretary of Commerce level by essentially saying that their alternate rules were the conservational equivalent to the rules the ASMFC wanted. Again, we'll see what happens. If the NJ rules have to be changed by legislation (which I'm not entirely sure about) any NJ refusal would be, in principal, almost identical to the VA situation with menhaden, i.e. a legislature failing to enact ASMFC rules, so maybe the VA out-of-compliance finding will be instructive.

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Looki@ commeeical numbers for Manhattan and stripedbass. It seems a liitle strange to me that pogies have 10 times the metric tons landed that stripedbass do. Seems like we are just stealing the food right out of the basses mouth.

Screenshot_20191030-135234_Samsung Internet.jpg

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Today the ASMFC met today for concerns on Striper management.

I find no confidence in this organization's ability to manage this fishery. Firstly their concern over poor attendance after Mr. Jenkins from Saltwater Edge did a beautiful dissertation explaining clearly and concisely that rec fisherman have expressed to him as well as sent documentation to the ASMFC in forms of email, letters or proxy a total mistrust of the ASMCF! If I did not do the webinar and have attended in person I would have asked why are they so stupid?

Data collection and assertions that they quoted were no more accurate than getting Las Vegas odds. The very assertion that the commercial fishery is not part of the problem is so laughable that they are so far from reality they are lost. I first hand saw thousands of fish with over 600 stripers dead from drowning after a trawler lost the net. Did they pick up their net ....no! A Right whale got tangled in it weeks later. I have never seen a rec angler lose his gear and cause that much damage. Do you think those guys dragging are reporting all the stripers they kill in the process? This is so sad. I go to the fly rod for schoolies in the spring because it is the right tool for the job. I catch them in the water I release them in the water. Using a d barbed hook not a circle and I know I am better than a 9% mortality. I don't stress them. Their assertions are ignorant and dangerous and lack any sensibility. When I surf cast I use a big F%$%n lure and no chance of deep hooking. Kudos to Rising Tide Anglers to promote catch and release as a sustainable solution. I thank you.

Now for some madness. The LEC is concerned on prosecuting circle hooks. This is the reason why the striper is in peril. Now they want to throw the book at some one for fishing with bait. This is so friggin stupid I can't imagine any rationale reason to not just fine someone and educate them into the proper equipment and use. NO MENTION of prosecuting the guy using circle hooks but keeping the 100 shorts. Nice isn't it.

Fishing mortality is solely based upon proper education. It is manageable by just educating the mass of fisherman. Why is this so hard to implement? The LEC did try to make the quota uniform across the board so there is no more loop hole. That was ok. I an sick this is just unimaginable how broken this system is. There is a saying " you can't fix stupid".....I firmly believe it applies here with ASMFC!

 

 

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28-35" SLOT APPROVED!!!

 

Option 2, equal cuts by Recs & Coms

 

Chesapeake Bay 1 fish @ 18"

 

Circle Hooks mandated for live or cut bait

Edited by Roccus7

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3 hours ago, flydog777 said:

Today the ASMFC met today for concerns on Striper management.

I find no confidence in this organization's ability to manage this fishery. Firstly their concern over poor attendance after Mr. Jenkins from Saltwater Edge did a beautiful dissertation explaining clearly and concisely that rec fisherman have expressed to him as well as sent documentation to the ASMFC in forms of email, letters or proxy a total mistrust of the ASMCF! If I did not do the webinar and have attended in person I would have asked why are they so stupid?

Data collection and assertions that they quoted were no more accurate than getting Las Vegas odds. The very assertion that the commercial fishery is not part of the problem is so laughable that they are so far from reality they are lost. I first hand saw thousands of fish with over 600 stripers dead from drowning after a trawler lost the net. Did they pick up their net ....no! A Right whale got tangled in it weeks later. I have never seen a rec angler lose his gear and cause that much damage. Do you think those guys dragging are reporting all the stripers they kill in the process? This is so sad. I go to the fly rod for schoolies in the spring because it is the right tool for the job. I catch them in the water I release them in the water. Using a d barbed hook not a circle and I know I am better than a 9% mortality. I don't stress them. Their assertions are ignorant and dangerous and lack any sensibility. When I surf cast I use a big F%$%n lure and no chance of deep hooking. Kudos to Rising Tide Anglers to promote catch and release as a sustainable solution. I thank you.

Now for some madness. The LEC is concerned on prosecuting circle hooks. This is the reason why the striper is in peril. Now they want to throw the book at some one for fishing with bait. This is so friggin stupid I can't imagine any rationale reason to not just fine someone and educate them into the proper equipment and use. NO MENTION of prosecuting the guy using circle hooks but keeping the 100 shorts. Nice isn't it.

Fishing mortality is solely based upon proper education. It is manageable by just educating the mass of fisherman. Why is this so hard to implement? The LEC did try to make the quota uniform across the board so there is no more loop hole. That was ok. I an sick this is just unimaginable how broken this system is. There is a saying " you can't fix stupid".....I firmly believe it applies here with ASMFC!

 

 

 

no one is commercial fishing with a dragger in MA - its rod and reel. That's dead bycatch from another type of comm fishing. I am not saying its cool its certainly is not but the rod and reel commercial fishery in mass isnt causing dead bycatch. 

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4 hours ago, Roccus7 said:

28-35" SLOT APPROVED!!!

 

Option 2, equal cuts by Recs & Coms

 

Chesapeake Bay 1 fish @ 18"

 

Circle Hooks mandated for live or cut bait

Looks like very few cows taken from the banks of the Canal Cod will end up in Chelsea this season. I like that......

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Is the 28-35” slot limit the final decision?  That seems like a bad decision based on the fact that there are currently a ton of 25-27” stripers that will be slaughtered next season.  Wouldn’t letting them live a few more years make sense?  Also what will the length limits be for the comm fishermen?

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I'm no expert on the process of these decisions, nor was I present for any of the meetings/discussions.  That said, reading comments from those in the know the slot limit "approval" still faces a lot of head winds and final decisions come out in February or March I believe.  Final comments from each state on any of the approvals are due 11/30.  Again, this coming from what I've been reading/hearing from folks much more involved and well versed on the subject.

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5 mins ago, FoliFish said:

I'm no expert on the process of these decisions, nor was I present for any of the meetings/discussions.  That said, reading comments from those in the know the slot limit "approval" still faces a lot of head winds and final decisions come out in February or March I believe.  Final comments from each state on any of the approvals are due 11/30.  Again, this coming from what I've been reading/hearing from folks much more involved and well versed on the subject.

As I understand it, the Slot is the Council's official recommendation.  States may deviate from that by submitting a Conservation Equivalency which is subject to Council approval.  If a state wants to stick with the slot, then they are fine.

 

Up to this point, ASMFC doesn't comment on commercial regs, just allocated quotas.  The individual states set up the rules in terms of slots, minimums, technique, tags, etc. and the rules must support the allocate quota difference.  Once again CEs can be set up.  Yesterday MD made it very clear that they would submit a CE to reallocate some of their recreational quota to the commercial side.

 

If you hate the slot, take a look at this photo.  It's one from a Headboat on the South Shore of LI during the annual Fall Sandeel Run Massacre which is underway right now.  These boats hit the fish 2 times, if not 3x per day with the rails full of fisherman and ambush these > 35" fish on their way to the wintering grounds off of VA so they an come up into the rivers and bays to spawn next spring.

 

 

striper slaughter.jpg

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Maybe it was just me but I caught very few fish over 35" relative to other years in 2019. Maybe that's because they were all gone, however, I am not sure I would have kept fewer fish if these were the regs in 2019. So while I applaud efforts to sustain the fishery - I am not sure this will have the desired outcome? Maybe paired with circle hook initiative it will make a dent....

 

I think they need to make it a "season" or a tag system. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, FoliFish said:

I'm no expert on the process of these decisions, nor was I present for any of the meetings/discussions.  That said, reading comments from those in the know the slot limit "approval" still faces a lot of head winds and final decisions come out in February or March I believe.  Final comments from each state on any of the approvals are due 11/30.  Again, this coming from what I've been reading/hearing from folks much more involved and well versed on the subject.

Not quite. The states have to submit their plans to the ASMFC by November 30th. Then the Tech.Comm. has to come up with recommendation o the board as whether each state's plan satisfies the adopted criteria, including CE. The the board has to approve or disapprove each state's plan at the February meeting. Meanwhile a lot of the states are already making changes to their regs. to speed up the process.

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