codfish

Its looking like 1 fish at 35 inches, new rules

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2 hours ago, tj7501 said:

I like to keep and eat 6-7 fish a season. I enjoy it, my family and friends enjoy it. It's much healthier than the hormone-fed protein available at the grocery store. And when I decide to keep a fish, I stop fishing at that point. There is a goal and an end point. That's the satisfaction for me. I could argue that hardcore anglers who catch and release cause just as much damage and mortality, if not more. You could even argue that that is torturing/killing an animal just for the thrill. At least I have finite goal for my quest. The C&R guy will continue until his arms are tired.

Never apologize for keeping a meal for you, family or friends........:th:

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9 hours ago, tj7501 said:

I like to keep and eat 6-7 fish a season. I enjoy it, my family and friends enjoy it. It's much healthier than the hormone-fed protein available at the grocery store. And when I decide to keep a fish, I stop fishing at that point. There is a goal and an end point. That's the satisfaction for me. I could argue that hardcore anglers who catch and release cause just as much damage and mortality, if not more. You could even argue that that is torturing/killing an animal just for the thrill. At least I have finite goal for my quest. The C&R guy will continue until his arms are tired.

You're still just killing them for the thrill. Two thrills. The catching thrill and the eating thrill. Still doing it for fun. I know you don't need it.

 

But of course, grocery store hormones are important. 

You want healthy food, gimme something born in the Hudson river every time.

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12 hours ago, mikez2 said:

You're still just killing them for the thrill. Two thrills. The catching thrill and the eating thrill. Still doing it for fun. I know you don't need it.

...

Absolutely. Hence the term "recreational". I was just responding to the person who argued that the problem would be solved if nobody kept fish to eat.

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9 mins ago, tj7501 said:

Absolutely. Hence the term "recreational". I was just responding to the person who argued that the problem would be solved if nobody kept fish to eat.

I musta missed that one.

Seems to me by now all the educated participants in this discussion understand the role of C&R mortality. 

 

Basically what I see in this thread and everywhere this topic comes up;

 

Guys fighting the limit increase for selfish reasons want lots of scapegoat for their finger pointing but do not want to feel any pain themselves. 

 

 

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On 10/20/2019 at 11:01 AM, giggyfish said:

I agree completely that the managers are idiots. I have zero faith in fisheries management. But it’s not like it was in the early 80s. They should have never changed from one fish at 36”. If they didn’t go to 34 then 32 then 28 then 2 @ 28” we would be loaded with bass. But I went last night and still hit bass on the Ma south shore and expect to catch into November. The biomass to build from is there. It’s now unfortunately going to take time to get back there. We both will have to gain faith if they do the right thing, if they fail to act for next season my opinion might change. But I won’t ever give up the game. 
The same droning doomsday opinions of the bass fishery and the state of the canal just gets tiring. Go fish somewhere else. They are there (albeit in smaller quantities)  if you look for them. 

The problem with the fishery goes well beyond the canal and has declined in our region. Many reports of smaller fish continue to be the only fish present lately. Surely I don't dispute that a wider search parameter will yield a slightly better result. I am concerned that a direct threat to the sustainability might be the cause. ie over fishing by man and predator. The resulting YOY from Baltimore is where the female stripers that swim back from the canal go to lay eggs. The males fertilize those eggs and the juvenile fish count is the success of this natural life cycle. The question is how many females are taken for dinner or trophies that never make it back there. Since the striper doesn't breed in my local waters I only think it responsible to question how I fish for them.  As a fellow angler the tug is the drug for me. I have not harvested a fish in years. The fish market is always well stocked. Catch and release is a personal choice. No one person can save a species from peril. It has to be a collective effort. I find it disturbing to think that those who choose to keep their caught striper in the presence of scientific proof of depleted stocks don't really enjoy the sport of fishing as much as they enjoy eating it. To each their own.

You can be part of the problem or part of the solution.

Your comparison to the 80's I found rather moot. Fishing was fantastic in the past and certain years there was a recorded drop off. My problem with that is the world was not as populated as it is today. The world will be even more populated next year. Matter of fact the population has never been this high ever. It just keeps growing. So does the demand for fish. Other countries park their trollers in international waters and intermittently cross and pillage our stock. Like Japan, China, Korea and many others. So today's problems are way worse and harder to solve. We are not alone. Alaska has seen declines in King Salmon and Halibut. looming concern of warming oceans has the scientific community playing catch up. This is just the tip of the ice berg. If we don't stop fighting each other and start recognizing this problem isn't going away on its own could spell disaster. That is not doom it is all to real. So what are we going to do about it?

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On 10/20/2019 at 11:15 AM, makaha said:

...Been at this game since 1972; from the Pigs to Vineyard to Block to Sluiceway to Chatham to PTown ,etc, etc.....etc; went to ALL the free-for-all mtgs of the late 70'searly 80's....

ASMFC stepped in with overseeing the bass fishery and lo and behold the fishery was restored. What Giggyfish stated is true in both his posts....it is not doom and gloom; the fishery will rebound because they're are too many checks and balances in the amendments to let that happen. There are plenty of SMALL fish in the pipeline and the present bag limits will allow the stocks to increase. The present day slowdown in big fish is directly due to the rec limits that were relaxed in the early 2000's....1 fish to 2 fish, drop in legal limit...pretty obvious that's where the fault lies...that and the huge increase in the recreational fishery that targets bass, be it charter, catch and release, etc., etc....game fish status??? ...be careful what you wish for...….

In 1972 the ownership of a vehicle was not as popular and available as it is today. Not every family could afford a car. Matter of fact it was not often a family had more than one car back then. So how easy was it for boat ownership back then? Times change. There are more people fishing today then in !972. So yes inadvertently more people are keeping fish regardless of slot limits. The problems today are not like those of 1972. Warming oceans, depleted stocks all over the US territories. Documented presence of predators increasing. Has everyone scratching their head in the scientific community. Have you not seen more people in more cars sitting in traffic going over the bridge Capeside. Or was that just like 1972? Today every one has a car. Most families have more than 2 cars. Checks and balances were in place. Polio, Measles, Small Pox and other diseases which have been eradicated by immunization have helped us survive and multiply. When we now continue to live longer and increase in population. So does the demand for fish.  So if you think that slot limit is the direct problem your missing that it only a small part of a bigger problem. In the later part of the1970's I fished for flounder with my Dad. It was so abundant. We cooked it right there on shore while we fished for more to have for dinner. Then a decade down the road the flounder were few and far between. As a matter of fact it has not come back to the fishery it once was. I don't want to see that happen to the striper. I think the problem is more difficult and needs real scientific investigation for further analysis. Or I could be wrong those cars in traffic might just be going to the t-shirt store. Maybe there is less people fishing than before. How many people with reciprocity you think come fish here? Have you ever seen any plate other than MA on the Cape?

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yep there is a truck with vt plates that is fishing every night,the amout of people fishing the outer cape is at an all time low.you are right not many of those cars you see are coming to the cape to fish unless you are talking the canal.

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The commercial industry will point to the rec fisherman and say that we are the reason for the decline.  I've seen netters first hand off the beaches in Montauk dragging in literally hundreds of short stripers only to throw them back into the waves.  Which bring up the issue of enforcement.  In the rare instance I was ever approached by an enforcement official, they just asked to see my license and never asked/checked for fish.

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Posted (edited) · Report post

It is absolutely LAUGHABLE that going to 1 fish at 35" is going to help the bass given the state of this fishery and the coast wide slaughter going on every year.  An 18% reduction in mortality is a complete joke.  It is not even close to what we actually need.  And with only a 50% chance of actually achieving that reduction these fish are doomed.  It is going to get so much worse in coming years and the clowns at ASMFC will be scrambling to prevent another crash.  I guarantee in 2-3 years we will see new regs and I assure you they are not going to favor those who like to keep fish...

 

EDIT - and please don't tell me it worked in the past.  Wake up people!  That was 100 years ago.  Things have changed.  WAY more people are fishing today and with technology, the internet, etc. anyone can catch fish with relative ease with a little effort.  

Edited by frezzy

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On 10/21/2019 at 2:17 PM, tj7501 said:

I like to keep and eat 6-7 fish a season. I enjoy it, my family and friends enjoy it. It's much healthier than the hormone-fed protein available at the grocery store. And when I decide to keep a fish, I stop fishing at that point. There is a goal and an end point. That's the satisfaction for me. I could argue that hardcore anglers who catch and release cause just as much damage and mortality, if not more. You could even argue that that is torturing/killing an animal just for the thrill. At least I have finite goal for my quest. The C&R guy will continue until his arms are tired.

Too many variables to say that C&R anglers cause more damage. How many meat fishermen stop fishing when they get their keeper? First cast is a keeper and they leave em biting? Doubt it. I see plenty of Bass on ice or in the sand while guys continue fishing. Also, how many shorts are being hooked and released before that dinner sized fish? All of those released before the keeper are part of the “9%” mortality and the kept fish is 100% dead. Assuming C&R anglers will just keep going all day hooking and releasing fish is a stretch too. The C&R guy could stop fishing after a couple of fish while the Meat guy keeps going because he hasn’t gotten his big girl for the table. Too many variables.

 

As an example lets assume 1000 Bass are hooked on a beach one blitzing morning, let’s say 10% are keepers. That’s 100 guaranteed dead Bass. The remaining 900 are released and 81 more die due to the 9% mortality rate. That’s 181 dead bass that morning. Now let’s assume that all 1000 are released. That’s 90 dead bass. Again too many variables and unknowns but basic data would suggest that C&R means more fish stay alive so I will continue doing that. 

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The traffic going to and leaving the Cape was much worse than it is now prior to the removal of the rotaries and prior to Thursdays becoming the new Fridays. Also there are many more of the Cape weekly summer rental cottages that are now year round residences.

In 1972 there was no Cape traffic after Labor Day, quite unlike today. Interestingly enough I never saw a single vehicle with rods on the roof on the lower Cape this weekend even though the gannets were diving on mackerel or sea herring just offshore.

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Just for S&G I ran the numbers to compare catch and effort on striped bass for the years 1981 (the earliest that's available on the pubic website) and 2018 the latest final data that's available.

 

in 1981 there were 2,022,936 trips direct at catching striped bass, in 2018 that figure jumped to 16,630,430.

The catch of striped bass (including release mortality) was 1,364,220 that figure jumped to 33,648,682 in 2018.

 

I should also note that those numbers are almost the exact opposite of the trend of what's been happening in most fisheries where the recreational effort has been dropping. 

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2 hours ago, frezzy said:

It is absolutely LAUGHABLE that going to 1 fish at 35" is going to help the bass given the state of this fishery and the coast wide slaughter going on every year.  An 18% reduction in mortality is a complete joke.  It is not even close to what we actually need.  And with only a 50% chance of actually achieving that reduction these fish are doomed.  It is going to get so much worse in coming years and the clowns at ASMFC will be scrambling to prevent another crash.  I guarantee in 2-3 years we will see new regs and I assure you they are not going to favor those who like to keep fish...

 

EDIT - and please don't tell me it worked in the past.  Wake up people!  That was 100 years ago.  Things have changed.  WAY more people are fishing today and with technology, the internet, etc. anyone can catch fish with relative ease with a little effort.  

You are only telling the truth. With spot burn magazine giving where, when what tide the best lure and which tackle to use. You only need to go to youtube and find countless video of blitzs. A fishing license, a car, some tackle and now your fishing elbow to elbow. That is how easy it is today. No skill required, no learning curve just instant gratification. The problem here is that magazine is for profit. They don't stock or replenish the fish. They focus on tournaments to make more money to solicit manufacturers of tackle. All at our expense. We do not have data to prove the actual numbers of fish kept at the canal. All I can do is hypothesis and postulate a solution. It is common sense that when the Canal is fishing gang busters word gets out and it receives heavy fishing pressure. Does every one that comes down for that sure thrill know how to tell the difference between a male and female striper? Do you think they know most fish over 35'' are female and critical to the success of the fishery. I highly doubt it. I can only control what I do. I choose to catch and release. I do it because I want to. I want to leave that trophy fish to procreate and continue the life cycle. It is something every one can learn to do and live with. You can still buy fish at the store. This is what we control as shore bound fisherman in the canal. What we do now can improve tomorrow. Today is a very me me world. No one wants to put in the hard work to educate and change the narrative. It seems blatantly obvious to me my decision to not keep a fish has rattled this forum. I did not intend to startle any one. It is just a life choice. There is always the one person that goes "but he is keeping one". You have to evolve and make it your choice and educate your fellow anglers. Stop living in the past and making excuses. Live by example and let the striper thrive for future generations to enjoy.

 

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2 hours ago, MakoMike said:

Just for S&G I ran the numbers to compare catch and effort on striped bass for the years 1981 (the earliest that's available on the pubic website) and 2018 the latest final data that's available.

 

in 1981 there were 2,022,936 trips direct at catching striped bass, in 2018 that figure jumped to 16,630,430.

The catch of striped bass (including release mortality) was 1,364,220 that figure jumped to 33,648,682 in 2018.

 

I should also note that those numbers are almost the exact opposite of the trend of what's been happening in most fisheries where the recreational effort has been dropping. 

This is exactly my point.  And exactly why 1 @ 35" will fail miserably.

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More reasons my 1@50" idea is superior:
* people out to bring one home every time will give up when they don't repeatedly - reducing the number of people fishing for stripers

* people who really want to catch and keep one will be more inclined to pay a charter captain to get them one, keeping that industry afloat, possibly augmenting it.

* tackle shops can jump on the bandwagon with manufacturers to hawk every next best thing in lures assuring people it will catch them that 50" fish

* Knowing that the big fish are "out there" will sell more boats, high end tackle, etc..

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