chessie_yaker

Shadow groups operating in Mexico

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I found this article to be pretty interesting because it not only paints a good picture of how far off track Mexico is as far as corruption and crime ruling the country, but what happens when a nation is that far off track. People will step up to the challenge and fight for humanity with a willingness to match and exceed the force and tactics of the enemy- do what is necessary to conquer. 

 

This is something that happens all over the globe, but this example is more pertinent to our interests because of the problem’s proximity to us. In the same way we source tactical training from the Israelis, Mexico has helped the US by providing certain teams, both sanctioned and non, with paramilitary (cartel/guerrilla) structure and counter-custody training, amongst others. These guys have lived it from childhood and carry with them a set of knowledge that a book could never teach. 

 

This article is an interview with an operator from the group autodefensa in Mexico and, if you didn’t have a mild understanding of what the people of Mexico are dealing with before reading it you’ll have a decent one after. 

 

https://www.thedailybeast.com/in-mexicos-drug-cartel-country-a-murderer-who-kills-murderers-tells-his-story?ref=scroll

 

1. Did reading this article change your views on the situation in Mexico? Why or why not?

 

2. How realistic of an understanding of the world outside of the United States do you feel the average American citizen operates with on a day-to-day basis?

 

3. Do you think that people knowing that these ways of life and occurrences exist outside of our country and in close proximity would help them see the value in the freedoms, liberties and protections that many fellow Americans take for granted? 

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41 mins ago, nalu22 said:

9/11 Truther....meaning unless I agree with everything you've ever said...you're retarded....:bigsmile:

I understand getting people who have been coddled to see beyond what they want to see is an exercise in futility, but this is something even stupid people can read and comprehend. 

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Government corruption allows for these things. We have corruption here, too. We saw how Hillary was willing to get Obama to change our official foreign policy in exchange for a few million here, a few million there. A cartel that pays a hundred million can get even more down there in old Mexico. It can get the army and the police to kill people for them.

 

Until the flow of drugs and people and weapons across our border ceases, they will continue to spiral downwards. Their economy is accepting of this and it will be difficult for them if we can stop it. They just ceased a single shipment that had enough illegal drugs to kill every American twice over. One shipment, that we managed to catch. They say that that drug came into Mexico from China. That the chinese manufactured it and sent it to Mexico to have it smuggled into America.

 

Our very own CIA smuggled drugs, as did one of our former presidents, Clinton. These cartels like for the locals to get a good look at the victims, so they string them up on bridges and such. Obama got into the acts by supplying guns to the cartels as well. Bush was said to have dabbled a little. Only Trump wants to actually stop this flow of drugs and end the entire mess.

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4 hours ago, FishinMortician said:

Government corruption allows for these things. We have corruption here, too. We saw how Hillary was willing to get Obama to change our official foreign policy in exchange for a few million here, a few million there. A cartel that pays a hundred million can get even more down there in old Mexico. It can get the army and the police to kill people for them.

 

Until the flow of drugs and people and weapons across our border ceases, they will continue to spiral downwards. Their economy is accepting of this and it will be difficult for them if we can stop it. They just ceased a single shipment that had enough illegal drugs to kill every American twice over. One shipment, that we managed to catch. They say that that drug came into Mexico from China. That the chinese manufactured it and sent it to Mexico to have it smuggled into America.

 

Our very own CIA smuggled drugs, as did one of our former presidents, Clinton. These cartels like for the locals to get a good look at the victims, so they string them up on bridges and such. Obama got into the acts by supplying guns to the cartels as well. Bush was said to have dabbled a little. Only Trump wants to actually stop this flow of drugs and end the entire mess.

Just a little more background on autodefensa... they weren’t always a shadow group; in fact they were very much a public and visible organization because they were their average citizens that weren’t hiding anything but some of their faces. They were born of a grassroots campaign led by a local doctor who had enough and met with the town leaders (wealthy non-cartel connected families) and formed a small group of armed civilians who banded together to fight back. It happened after an attack on a small lime plantation where 15 people were brutally murdered by cartel members as punishment toward the farmer for not paying for protection. They beheaded the men while the women watched the cartel members swing their infants and small children by their legs and smash their heads on rocks, then raped the women and killed them, then dismembered the bodies. 13 souls were of the same family. The townspeople banded together and executed the cartel members that didn’t get the chance to run away. 

 

Their entire region had been plagued by the cartels to the point where not one household was unaffected by them. Once word traveled to the neighboring towns, the small group traveled and got other local townspeople together to fight back and push the cartels out of their towns. It escalated to being a sizable group and in one town while extracting two known members who had carried out executions, gang rapings, etc, the federal police stopped their exercise and began to disarm them. The townspeople came together and surrounded the group of about 20 federal police agents and ended up forcing them into giving the autodefensa members their arms back. They also took into custody the two cartel members that were extracted and backed out of the town with them. 

 

Fast forward a little and the group found that they were meeting heavy resistance from the federal govt for taking matters into their own hands as the group grew in size and strength. At the same time there was some internal flipping by a small group using the power of the larger force to start taking advantage of the protection and dealing drugs themselves. This happened just before the govt announced that they were giving the group a deadline to either disarm or become a govt run group that would begin taking its orders from govt officials. At one town gathering where the federal police had a presence, there were hecklers in the crowd shouting that they didn’t want the autodefensa there and they were happy without them. Prior to this point the govt had never announced an open attack on any of the cartels, but they were beginning to target this group of armed citizens. 

 

The splitting of the group happened when a leader who the doctor had placed in charge worked to bring a sizable portion of the group under govt control. The doctor publicly spoke out against this as it was a means for the govt to gain control of opposition to the cartels. The group split; the larger portion got military uniforms and govt issued arms. This is when the remainder went underground. Their current ops are known to exist because of their successes, but they remain very well hidden as they carry out their original focus of ridding their towns of the cartels by way of removing their leaders and moving down the food chain to disrupt operations.

 

In the United States, citizens function under a very different dynamic. We are a wealthy population with many protections that are afforded us and are taken for granted. We are busy with our every day lives that remain, on the grander scale, very uninterrupted by anything outside of a civil normalcy. We also have an extensive media network that can help shore and guide public sentiment. The events that the average citizens of towns and cities in Mexico experience are an extreme rarity in the US as we have never seen the scale of brutality that the cartels operate with as a standard on our soil, but as the influx of cartel members at the lower orders continue to breach our southern border and make their home in our sanctuary cities, we are seeing an increase in violent crimes. 

 

Prior to the sanctuary cities and a social movement to ignore the function of our border, small groups of US citizens started banding together at our southern border, not to hunt down and execute cartel members, but to slow the traffic of the cartels onto unprotected US soil. These groups were comprised of anyone from concerned citizens to ex-military who geared up to perform recon and act as a human border, so to speak; surveying the region, finding the routes used and learning the cartel’s tactics, while stopping groups of coyotes and runners and turning them in to local and federal law enforcement.

 

These same groups provide security for private organizations working at the border to construct sections of the wall. I find it interesting how some groups within our society continue to condemn efforts that work to secure our border on all fronts. From the political blocking of funding for our govt to uphold its duty of protecting our citizenry to the localities imposing cease and desist orders like we saw in Southern California where Sunland Park mayor Javier Perea blocked the construction due to lack of building permits... a wall being built on private land that does not impede any legal forms of transportation or commerce. U.S. Air Force veteran and We Build the Wall founder Brian Kolfage, along side former Kansas Secretary of State Kris Kobach — an immigration hard-liner who serves as general counsel to the group, argued they had filed the correct paperwork and had briefed the necessary authorities on their plans.

 

They are also fought on the ideological front by groups such as the SPLC designating these groups as anti-immigration extremist hate groups. Although they cannot provide any evidence to support their claims, they continue operating under the pretense that anyone who stops anyone wanting to enter the United States is doing so because of racism fueled hatred for those wishing to enter the US. From a logical stance and also knowing that groups such as the SPLC have done nothing to improve the conditions of those living in poverty, it is easy to deduct that they are working under an ulterior motive that has historically proven to not succeed fulfilling their mission statement, yet remains to exist. What is their motive then? 

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This is nothing new for Mexicans mind you. There was a movie made about this very subject, and it became a classic. Yul Brenner lead a band of gunmen from America down to a town in Old Mexico being brutalized by bandits. The Magnificent Seven. In that movie only a couple of the hired gunmen survive to leave town, but they shoot the bandits and end the terror campaign. It was one of my favorite westerns as a kid and still remains so today.

 

Yul also starred in another movie that had a similar theme, but was based in the future. The Ultimate Warrior. He was a knife fighter and the group would sacrifice some of their food to keep him fit and ready to do his thing to protect them. Very cool.

 

So I think it is fine for these townspeople to hire killers to kill those that kill them. In High Plains Drifter Clint taught the towns people how to fight back against bandits. Having a reliable and effective weapon permits one to defend against these killers. Not having a gun means you stand there and watch them bash in baby's skulls, rape the women, and torture the men. Amazing that anyone would want to impose weakness upon others, but the communist mind is an amazing thing.

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1 min ago, FishinMortician said:

This is nothing new for Mexicans mind you. There was a movie made about this very subject, and it became a classic. Yul Brenner lead a band of gunmen from America down to a town in Old Mexico being brutalized by bandits. The Magnificent Seven. In that movie only a couple of the hired gunmen survive to leave town, but they shoot the bandits and end the terror campaign. It was one of my favorite westerns as a kid and still remains so today.

 

Just FYI, the magnificent seven was based on a book called the seven samurai, which was set in feudal Japan. IOW the original story had nothing to do with Mexico.

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9 mins ago, MakoMike said:

Just FYI, the magnificent seven was based on a book called the seven samurai, which was set in feudal Japan. IOW the original story had nothing to do with Mexico.

I haven’t read or seen what you guys are mentioning, but I heard both are good. That said, would you say that the application of the original story doesn’t fit what’s going on in Mexico? Basic themes of classics seem to tell a story that is applicable to many points in history because, well, people are people. Under similar circumstances we tend to do the same things if history wasn’t learned from or we are wrapped up in the emotional whims of motivation. 

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2 hours ago, chessie_yaker said:

I haven’t read or seen what you guys are mentioning, but I heard both are good. That said, would you say that the application of the original story doesn’t fit what’s going on in Mexico? Basic themes of classics seem to tell a story that is applicable to many points in history because, well, people are people. Under similar circumstances we tend to do the same things if history wasn’t learned from or we are wrapped up in the emotional whims of motivation. 

All I'm saying is that the story originates from a different time in a different place. The fact that it may be equally relevant in a different time and place could possibly be said about every story about the frailties of the human existence.

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     A similar group was created in El Salvador to combat the infamous ms gangs, which is why the gangs are in hiding now. This combined with the country’s new president and his efforts  things look like they’re  going to get much better. This will in turn hopefully lead to less immigration in the long run.

     Another country  worth mentioning is Venezuela whose people are truly suffering, they can’t even afford medicine or basic supplies because their inflation rate is through the roof. Not sure if they have something similar going on with hitmen for hire but many are fleeing the country and living in the neighboring jungles. People do not want to see the root cause for these situations and I don’t blame them because it requires way too much work to solve and building a wall isn’t going to fix anything.

     With that being said, the cartels definitely have a lot of fire power and are not afraid of using to use it, as mentioned, to instill fear. I’ve heard a story or two about them doing such things here in US soil, like someone local was playing with fire and got burned (literally), body was found in the trunk of a burning car. So I’d say that is pretty close proximity.

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2 hours ago, MakoMike said:

Just FYI, the magnificent seven was based on a book called the seven samurai, which was set in feudal Japan. IOW the original story had nothing to do with Mexico.

Well isn't that interesting. I still prefer it be about Yul blasting dirty Mexicans though. Just think if those villagers had access to AR 15 s.

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17 mins ago, rdiezel said:

     A similar group was created in El Salvador to combat the infamous ms gangs, which is why the gangs are in hiding now. This combined with the country’s new president and his efforts  things look like they’re  going to get much better. This will in turn hopefully lead to less immigration in the long run.

     Another country  worth mentioning is Venezuela whose people are truly suffering, they can’t even afford medicine or basic supplies because their inflation rate is through the roof. Not sure if they have something similar going on with hitmen for hire but many are fleeing the country and living in the neighboring jungles. People do not want to see the root cause for these situations and I don’t blame them because it requires way too much work to solve and building a wall isn’t going to fix anything.

     With that being said, the cartels definitely have a lot of fire power and are not afraid of using to use it, as mentioned, to instill fear. I’ve heard a story or two about them doing such things here in US soil, like someone local was playing with fire and got burned (literally), body was found in the trunk of a burning car. So I’d say that is pretty close proximity.

It hasn't come nearly as close here as what they deal with down there because we’d all know about families being found in pieces in their homes. Right now it’s more trade focused where people who choose to participate in that world and don’t comply become an example. As far as I know, innocent people have not been found in a pile of parts yet. 

 

Its funny that you mention Venezuela... have you ever seen their timeline of events as far as socialist changes that led to them eating their pets? 

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5 mins ago, rdiezel said:

And it all happens after banning guns huh? Couldn’t have seen that coming.

The 2001 election was really the catalyst for everything else coming down. But, yeah, it was a piece of it 

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