LGFishing

Tips for an intermediate?

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Hi.  I have been using a spinning setup for years, but I am just beginning to really want to seriously get into fishing.  I will need to be casting up to 150 yards, and I’ll be surfcasting.  I’ll be targeting small to medium sized bluefish and stripers.

 

1. Should I get a spinning or conventional reel?

2. How hard is it to manually level wind?

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On 9/6/2019 at 7:31 PM, FishinMortician said:

Find a great rod, learn to cast, get a long cast reel and quality braid, then build aerodynamic payloads. After you do those things 150 yards gets pretty easy.

Do you think an Abu Garcia C3 6500, Penn Squall, or Penn Fierce II would be a better reel?

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I don’t know anyone who thinks 150yds is “pretty easy” in real fishing conditions. Is it possible with the right gear and tackle, of course...but half that distance is a decent cast. Don’t set yourself up for disappointment or failure...if you really need to cast 150yds regularly, you’re gonna need a very long rod, a well calibrated conventional reel, and special, long cast, weighted plugs...plus a lot of practice. I can cast an 11’ surf rod pretty well, and I almost never hit 100yds on the water. Heck, I’m happy to hit 50 yds throwing a darter into the wind. Think about what you really need to accomplish and then gear up accordingly. 

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2 hours ago, Mojua said:

I don’t know anyone who thinks 150yds is “pretty easy” in real fishing conditions. Is it possible with the right gear and tackle, of course...but half that distance is a decent cast. Don’t set yourself up for disappointment or failure...if you really need to cast 150yds regularly, you’re gonna need a very long rod, a well calibrated conventional reel, and special, long cast, weighted plugs...plus a lot of practice. I can cast an 11’ surf rod pretty well, and I almost never hit 100yds on the water. Heck, I’m happy to hit 50 yds throwing a darter into the wind. Think about what you really need to accomplish and then gear up accordingly. 

Alright.  Thank you.  You’re right.  150 probably isn’t realistic.  People just throw it around, so I guessed that would be a decent cast.

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4 hours ago, LGFishing said:

Do you think an Abu Garcia C3 6500, Penn Squall, or Penn Fierce II would be a better reel?

Recommend you look at the threads in the Distance Casting Forum. 

None of the reels you mention are considered top of the line long cast conventional reels anymore.  ABU 6500 reels that were made in Sweden prior to 2006 were extensively used on tournament fields and for surf fishing in England, but usually had modifications vis-à-vis custom one piece machined billet frames, hybrid ceramic spool bearings and magnetic cast control.  Unfortunately, when Pure Fishing acquired ABU, they stopped making conventional reels in Sweden.  Similar story for Penn - their distance reel was the 525 Mag, which was made in the USA, originally had a slidey mag control that was very much superior to the ABU 6500 version in terms of range of adjustment.  In the UK, knobby mag control versions were available, which, when combined with hybrid ceramic spool bearings, won quite a few distance tournaments in the hands of excellent casters. I'm attaching a picture of the UK Penn 525 Super Mag.

 

Best conventional reels for long cast applications today are produced by Daiwa and Akios.  My personal opinion is that the best out-of-the-box reel for distance is the Daiwa Tournament Mag 7HT, with the 7HTST (Super Tuned) model having a slight edge over the 7HT.  I selected the 7HT for the Power Handle, which for me is more user friendly than the paddle handle on the 7HTST, as I use my 7HT exclusively for plugging with a 10ft 6in Century Slingshot blank (2-5oz) I custom wrapped.  Unfortunately, I have never personally owned any Akios reels, or the latest Daiwa Saltiga models, but perhaps my fellow SOL'ers can address these reels.

penn 525 super Mag.jpg

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150 is one heck of a cast with actual fishing gear. 100 is reasonable and not all that difficult. Something aerodynamic like a diamond jig or a heavy pencil will get out 100+ with a decent setup and some technique. 

Personally I'd stay away from conventional but that's just because I always manage to get serious birdsnests with them.

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I don't know where you are fishing, but in general, if you are targeting striper's- you'll be casting over most of them as you attempt 150 yard casts. Your efforts may be better spent learning  where to find the fish under a variety of conditions like time, tide, wind, moon, bait patterns, etc.  A great search term would be "how to read the water"- it may show some posts that give scenarios where the bass would be in close.

 

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1 hour ago, davef said:

I don't know where you are fishing, but in general, if you are targeting striper's- you'll be casting over most of them as you attempt 150 yard casts. Your efforts may be better spent learning  where to find the fish under a variety of conditions like time, tide, wind, moon, bait patterns, etc.  A great search term would be "how to read the water"- it may show some posts that give scenarios where the bass would be in close.

 

Good advice. I would stick with spinning outfit until you become proficient with it. Fishing with a conventional rod and reel in the surf can been difficult and downright frustrating. There is a reason why 99 and 9/10s percent of surf fishermen use spinning gear.

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Posted (edited) · Report post

6 hours ago, FlatWing said:

Recommend you look at the threads in the Distance Casting Forum. 

None of the reels you mention are considered top of the line long cast conventional reels anymore.  ABU 6500 reels that were made in Sweden prior to 2006 were extensively used on tournament fields and for surf fishing in England, but usually had modifications vis-à-vis custom one piece machined billet frames, hybrid ceramic spool bearings and magnetic cast control.  Unfortunately, when Pure Fishing acquired ABU, they stopped making conventional reels in Sweden.  Similar story for Penn - their distance reel was the 525 Mag, which was made in the USA, originally had a slidey mag control that was very much superior to the ABU 6500 version in terms of range of adjustment.  In the UK, knobby mag control versions were available, which, when combined with hybrid ceramic spool bearings, won quite a few distance tournaments in the hands of excellent casters. I'm attaching a picture of the UK Penn 525 Super Mag.

 

Best conventional reels for long cast applications today are produced by Daiwa and Akios.  My personal opinion is that the best out-of-the-box reel for distance is the Daiwa Tournament Mag 7HT, with the 7HTST (Super Tuned) model having a slight edge over the 7HT.  I selected the 7HT for the Power Handle, which for me is more user friendly than the paddle handle on the 7HTST, as I use my 7HT exclusively for plugging with a 10ft 6in Century Slingshot blank (2-5oz) I custom wrapped.  Unfortunately, I have never personally owned any Akios reels, or the latest Daiwa Saltiga models, but perhaps my fellow SOL'ers can address these reels.

penn 525 super Mag.jpg

I looked into the Diawa reels, but it doesn’t look like they make any of the lower/priced open face reels in left handed configuration.  Are the Penns and Abus that bad?  Keep in  mind, it’s my first conventional.  I’m not competition casting.  Are they capable of 50 to 75 yards?

Edited by LGFishing

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Competition casting is much different from casting for fishing purposes. Placing your lure where you want it, keeping in touch with your lure without slack in your line and actually controlling fish you may hook at those distances is much more difficult than most people realize (or even think about). Learn to find the fish within reasonable working distances and be able to deal with currents, wind, waves and structure. You'll be better off. Most of the distances people are claiming are exaggerated. Can they even reliably tell what 150 yards looks like on the water? I can't. 

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7 hours ago, baldwin said:

Competition casting is much different from casting for fishing purposes. Placing your lure where you want it, keeping in touch with your lure without slack in your line and actually controlling fish you may hook at those distances is much more difficult than most people realize (or even think about). Learn to find the fish within reasonable working distances and be able to deal with currents, wind, waves and structure. You'll be better off. Most of the distances people are claiming are exaggerated. Can they even reliably tell what 150 yards looks like on the water? I can't. 

I know exactly what 150 yards looks like in the water. Looks like "just too far".

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Posted (edited) · Report post

18 hours ago, LGFishing said:

I looked into the Diawa reels, but it doesn’t look like they make any of the lower/priced open face reels in left handed configuration.  Are the Penns and Abus that bad?  Keep in  mind, it’s my first conventional.  I’m not competition casting.  Are they capable of 50 to 75 yards?

I do not know what the modern day Penn's and ABU's are capable of.  My statements are regarding reliability/quality control based on my experiences with the 7000i and reviews on line that speak to the new Penn's vs. the 525 Mags.  As I stated, all my ABU's are pre-2005 Swedish made and my Penn's are 525Mags modified for knobby mag control.  I was hoping some SOL'ers would address AKIOS with 1st hand knowledge - I know they have left hand retrieve model, specifically the Akios S-Line Left Hand Series 651 CTM, and I have not seen anything negative posted here or elsewhere about them - they are also very reasonably priced, in my opinion.

17 hours ago, baldwin said:

Competition casting is much different from casting for fishing purposes. Placing your lure where you want it, keeping in touch with your lure without slack in your line and actually controlling fish you may hook at those distances is much more difficult than most people realize (or even think about). Learn to find the fish within reasonable working distances and be able to deal with currents, wind, waves and structure. You'll be better off. Most of the distances people are claiming are exaggerated. Can they even reliably tell what 150 yards looks like on the water? I can't. 

I've posted this before in the distance casting forum, but here are the results from the last Sport Cast USA tournament I participated in, which was a fisherman's cast-a-muck, so "Full Tournament" rods and casts were not allowed, so you will see Uni-Tech, aerolized Uni-Tech, Hatteras and OTG fishing casts utilized with distances measured by use of a range finder.

 

2012_Cast-A-Muck_Results (2).xls

 

You may recall that after Hurricane Irene (Fall 2011), Striper fishing from the surf involved delivering Sand Eel imitations over the outer bar - most folks were wading out there on both sides of low tide.  Those of us physically unable to do so who could execute 350-400ft casts were able to catch from solid beach. I personally used a 3oz T-Hex, 4oz Diamond Jig, heavy Hag's Tackle Sting Silver or, in extreme cases, a 125gm bullet lead to deliver a Flatwing Fly Teaser rigged 4 1/2 ft above the terminal clip of my rig.  Using 30lb PP with a 60lb PP Hollow Ace "shock leader", I had no difficulty keeping in touch with my lure during what was admittedly a very slow retrieve (after quickly picking up slack) that allowed the fly to "swim".  Perhaps because I have, since 1992, fished exclusively crushed barbs, I had no difficulty with hook up.  Also, I had no difficulty with controlling the fish, but I also use LC rods (Zziplex, Century and Shimano) of 101/2 - 14ft lengths, which have a completely different action than fiberglass, graphite or more parabolic action carbon rods, such as the Century Slingshot or FSC Predator (which I use for "short cast" work). 

Edited by FlatWing

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On 9/7/2019 at 3:52 AM, LGFishing said:

Hi.  I have been using a spinning setup for years, but I am just beginning to really want to seriously get into fishing.  I will need to be casting up to 150 yards, and I’ll be surfcasting.  I’ll be targeting small to medium sized bluefish and stripers.

 

1. Should I get a spinning or conventional reel?

2. How hard is it to manually level wind?

I surf fish for most of the time, most i can cast is abt 70-80yds where the wave breaker is.  Also, as baldwin mention, we just can't tell either 100 or 150 yds look like when fishing in surf (not usless u got a color braid line, every 10m one color,  or a line-counter attach to the rod everything you cast).

 

For you style, get a Daiwa BG, Penn Spinfisher VI Long Cast Reel or equivalent quality reel and a 10ft or 13 ft rod to start with.  When you really into it, upgrade to a Shimano Ultegra Ci4+ or better reel to get bigger fish. Good luck.

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Posted (edited) · Report post

If you go with a round reel, get a levelwind, much easier for plugging. The Abu 6500 cs mag elite or a Penn 525 have been my only plugging reels for many years. Surf casting a spinner is a work in progress for me. Dry land practice is where I hash things out.

CE6A2466-0423-4B72-B895-250B4F5DE5F8.jpeg

Edited by cheech
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