coastalfreak

Consensus on Old vs New Reels

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26 mins ago, BrianBM said:

Dave, thank you. I thought that the Accuplates might add a lot of weight, but apparently they don't.

Brian,

 

You are very welcome !

 

Dave F.

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I'm a noob without much experience, but my Penn reels are old/new... 710z and Spinfisher V. 

 

There is a night/day difference between these reels. 

 

... I use a light Carolina rig to allow bait (for surf Perch) to drift along with currents/wave action) and I hold the rod just forward of its balance point so that the rod tip is up, then lower the tip by cranking the reel just enough to keep the rod "balanced". 

 

Anyhoo, the 710Z transmits every single vibration of the line. Micro-movements can be felt via micro-turns of the crank. 

The SpinfisherV feels "dead/disconnected" from the line. It has no subtle movements. It cranks fine at high speed, but tiny, slow speed movements feel dead. 

 

Methinks it is the "breakaway torque" of modern seals. High friction at low speeds? 

I can't explain it, but these two reels on the same rod has me wanting to sell the modern one. 

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I often wonder if braided line just didn't exist where the spinning reel industry would have been today. The biggest leap in performance you get with a modern reel over an old design is how it casts and winds braided line. Even the drags on the old reels were more than adequate for a surf fisherman. If we all fished mono there is very little in the way of improvements and gains that I see between both old and new reels.

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Posted (edited) · Report post

2 hours ago, redfin said:

I often wonder if braided line just didn't exist where the spinning reel industry would have been today. The biggest leap in performance you get with a modern reel over an old design is how it casts and winds braided line. Even the drags on the old reels were more than adequate for a surf fisherman. If we all fished mono there is very little in the way of improvements and gains that I see between both old and new reels.

Agreed . . . 100% !

 

Personally, I have made serious efforts to try Braid, on both Conventional's and Spinners. After wanting to love Braid, I fin the complete opposite to be true ( for me ) . . .

 

I hate Braid for the following reasons and have gone back to Mono, 100% :

 

(1) Expensive.

(2) Not abrasion resistant, regardless of the hype.

(3) Difficult to tie knots that won't slip.

(4) Digs into itself.

(5) Slices skin like a razor.

(6) Difficult to keep tightly spooled, while casting and fishing.

(7) I hate the "feel" of Braid ( slippery ).

 

The video's below are "eye-openers" . . .

 

Dave F.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2ilksQgUMg

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiQTvmM-1cY

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4_RIZ8PcFg

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9wWCtxeRIk

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unZzUPMBQl8

Edited by ez2cdave

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9 hours ago, cityevader said:

I'm a noob without much experience, but my Penn reels are old/new... 710z and Spinfisher V. 

 

There is a night/day difference between these reels. 

 

... I use a light Carolina rig to allow bait (for surf Perch) to drift along with currents/wave action) and I hold the rod just forward of its balance point so that the rod tip is up, then lower the tip by cranking the reel just enough to keep the rod "balanced". 

 

Anyhoo, the 710Z transmits every single vibration of the line. Micro-movements can be felt via micro-turns of the crank. 

The SpinfisherV feels "dead/disconnected" from the line. It has no subtle movements. It cranks fine at high speed, but tiny, slow speed movements feel dead. 

 

Methinks it is the "breakaway torque" of modern seals. High friction at low speeds? 

I can't explain it, but these two reels on the same rod has me wanting to sell the modern one. 

I am thinking that the "instant anti-reverse", used in most "modern" reels may be the culprit, since it allows no "play" in the crank.

 

Dave F.

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Posted (edited) · Report post

I have worn out many of the best reels made in my 55 years of fishing and the only reels I own that are truly bullet proof are some of the Original Fin Nor Ahab 20 and 12 spinning reels.  They work as well today as they did 30 years ago.  They only things I needed to replace were drag and roller washers. The only evidence of their 30 years of service is a little worn paint on the bottom of the rotors and some tiny cosmetic scratches on the spool skirt and they were used for surf fishing and surf tournament fishing for over 30 years. 

 

They are simply amazingly rock solid smooth and powerful reels. They will outlast me.

Edited by Jay Blair

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8 hours ago, ez2cdave said:

Agreed . . . 100% !

 

Personally, I have made serious efforts to try Braid, on both Conventional's and Spinners. After wanting to love Braid, I fin the complete opposite to be true ( for me ) . . .

 

I hate Braid for the following reasons and have gone back to Mono, 100% :

 

(1) Expensive.

(2) Not abrasion resistant, regardless of the hype.

(3) Difficult to tie knots that won't slip.

(4) Digs into itself.

(5) Slices skin like a razor.

(6) Difficult to keep tightly spooled, while casting and fishing.

(7) I hate the "feel" of Braid ( slippery ).

 

The video's below are "eye-openers" . . .

 

Dave F.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2ilksQgUMg

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiQTvmM-1cY

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4_RIZ8PcFg

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9wWCtxeRIk

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unZzUPMBQl8

I agree with everything you said about braid.... But braid will allow you to cast further...

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Yesterdays reels had their time and place, like everything there were some good ones and some bad ones. The Penn Z Series and the Daiwa BG's are still beach worthy today, the Mitchells, Centaurs, Luxor, Cracks and others not so much although still able but not as comfortable. Todays quality reels like the Saragosa perform better and will last as long as any reel ever has.

 

Like many things including cars, the metals are better, the machining improved and the engineering and plastics are way above what was around yeas ago. Today you can buy a Dodge Challenger with 800hp, a/c, all the creature comforts of 2019 and with the look of a 1970 model that rode hard, had inferior comforts and needed a lot of maintenance. Not to mention they couldn't stay close to todays stuff. But ya' gotta pay, thats the catch. 

 

Now, I do think watermelon was better when it had seeds, otherwise most things have improved over the years. 

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Posted (edited) · Report post

36 mins ago, sytheteacher said:

I agree with everything you said about braid.... But braid will allow you to cast further...

Only because Braid is thinner diameter for the same lb-test . . . Make it the same diameter, braid loses, due to drag !

 

A good example is a surf rod ( 525 MAG conventional reel ), fishing bait,  using 15 lb-test mono vs. 65 lb-test Braid ( same diameter ).  The casting distance is virtually identical, but the Braid has more line drag in the water, which makes it more difficult to hold bottom, requiring more weight.

 

Now, Braid has a larger distance advantage on Spinning gear, than on a Conventional reel but, for me, the disadvantages outweigh the advantages.

 

Being able to cast further is a nice "perk", but only if the fish are that far out . . . Otherwise, the 7 "negatives" I listed, outweighs the 1 "positive" of increased distance.

 

Dave F.

 

 

Edited by ez2cdave

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6 mins ago, Highlander1 said:

.Now, I do think watermelon was better when it had seeds, .

 

Much better.

Much, much better.

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1 hour ago, ez2cdave said:

Only because Braid is thinner diameter for the same lb-test . . . Make it the same diameter, braid loses, due to drag !

 

A good example is a surf rod ( 525 MAG conventional reel ), fishing bait,  using 15 lb-test mono vs. 65 lb-test Braid ( same diameter ).  The casting distance is virtually identical, but the Braid has more line drag in the water, which makes it more difficult to hold bottom, requiring more weight.

 

Now, Braid has a larger distance advantage on Spinning gear, than on a Conventional reel but, for me, the disadvantages outweigh the advantages.

 

Being able to cast further is a nice "perk", but only if the fish are that far out . . . Otherwise, the 7 "negatives" I listed, outweighs the 1 "positive" of increased distance.

 

Dave F.

 

 

glad you brought up the needing more weight to hold bottom thing.  I can hold bottom with 1- 2 oz less with 17 lbs mono then a guy fishing even 40 lb braid

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I mostly fish older reels with newer rods.  I like being able to maintain the reels myself, so once you've taken apart and reassembled a Mitchell 302 or a Penn Long Beach, you can confidently do a whole bunch of other similar reels.  So they are fun to collect.  I have not fished any of the new reels so I do not know what I am missing.  All I know is that I am perfectly happy with what I have.  

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3 hours ago, ez2cdave said:

Only because Braid is thinner diameter for the same lb-test . . . Make it the same diameter, braid loses, due to drag !

 

A good example is a surf rod ( 525 MAG conventional reel ), fishing bait,  using 15 lb-test mono vs. 65 lb-test Braid ( same diameter ).  The casting distance is virtually identical, but the Braid has more line drag in the water, which makes it more difficult to hold bottom, requiring more weight.

 

Now, Braid has a larger distance advantage on Spinning gear, than on a Conventional reel but, for me, the disadvantages outweigh the advantages.

 

Being able to cast further is a nice "perk", but only if the fish are that far out . . . Otherwise, the 7 "negatives" I listed, outweighs the 1 "positive" of increased distance.

 

Dave F.

 

 

Another poster made a similar point - he likes mono better on his casting conventionals. I'm going to give that distinction a bit more attention. 

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When I went from a Saragossa from years of Penn Z’s, there was no looking back. Way lighter, cast better, smoother and still able to reel in big fish in the same big current. After that, the BG’s came out and basically killed my need for my older Penns. I still have my big greenies in case I need to get wet with its chunky fireline, but even there, my 6000 Gosa with its 832 is just easier and smoother to use. Yea, my Z’s will last for ever, way longer than my gosa’s Stradics slammers and BG’s, but for my day to day purposes I want a smoother, lighter caster, and I’ll worry about replacing it later.

But like many of you, when I see a cool Crack 300 on the BST I get  tempted, but deep down I know I would use it only a couple times before I post on the BST. 

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