Twisted

How's about limiting the size of fish you can keep?

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47 posts in this topic

Generally they don't even spawn until 28" so removing them before they get a turn at breeding is absolutely foolish should be a min 32" that would give them a few years to do their job. There is much more than this but it would be a good start. I truly hope the limit for next year is 36"  it will take a few yrs to see results but they will come.

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17 mins ago, giggyfish said:

By that chart it states that recreational anglers are responsible for 9 times the amount of fish killed than commercial fishermen.

I believe that recreational anglers are responsible for many many dead bass but 9x......, not so much. 

Yes it does. The commercial harvest is measurable. Commercial dead release not so much (likely not even close).

 

The recreational numbers are all anecdotal. The recreational mortality rate is not only anecdotal, but the chart is no where close to the 8% reference in the article. It would be hard to say the numbers are anything close to exact science.

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34 mins ago, Stonesipher said:

Generally they don't even spawn until 28" so removing them before they get a turn at breeding is absolutely foolish should be a min 32" that would give them a few years to do their job. There is much more than this but it would be a good start. I truly hope the limit for next year is 36"  it will take a few yrs to see results but they will come.

There needs to be an upper size limit as the true cows produce most of the eggs.

 

"A six year old, 7 pound female striper can produce approximately 500,000 eggs while a 17 year old, 50 pound bass can produce 3 million eggs."

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1 hour ago, GuiltyAsCharged said:

There needs to be an upper size limit as the true cows produce most of the eggs.

 

"A six year old, 7 pound female striper can produce approximately 500,000 eggs while a 17 year old, 50 pound bass can produce 3 million eggs."

This equation only works if you think that there aren’t at least 6 times more 7 pound bass than there is 50 pounders. I’d say that it is closer to 50-100 more 28 inch 7 pound bass to every 50 pounder. 50 28 inch bass produce 25,000,000 eggs combined annually and spread genetics across a broader scale. 

 

1@36 coast wide. 

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5 hours ago, GuiltyAsCharged said:

Yes it does. The commercial harvest is measurable. Commercial dead release not so much (likely not even close).

 

The recreational numbers are all anecdotal. The recreational mortality rate is not only anecdotal, but the chart is no where close to the 8% reference in the article. It would be hard to say the numbers are anything close to exact science.

the commercial dead release isn't that much because the amount of true commercial bass fishemerman is a small number, by true i mean people that actually catch and sell there share, not the people who sell 3-5 a year which is basically the same take as most rec guys. You have to get it through your head these numbers are not just MA, it is for the entire striper coast. Not every state has a commercial fishery and some states have a very small commercial fishery with low lb limits that last maybe a month or 2, not ever state is MA, where as every state has rec fishing. The average commercial fisherman kills more bass than the average recreational fisherman probably 15 times more than the average recreational fisherman in actual numbers in what they keep or die after release. The problem is recreational fisherman out number them probably 10,000 to 1, if not more. That's why you see the giant number of rec killed bass through harvest and dead release compared to commercial. 10,000 rec guys caught 35 fish each the whole season, they didn't keep a single fish and released everyone of them. Based on the 9% 31,500 bass died. 1 commercial guy caught 700 fish and sold 420 over the a 14 week period catching and selling his 15 every commercial day. Say another 100 died, only 520 fish are killed. There are just way more recs out there than commercial and i went light with 35 fish an entire fishing season.

 

  It the same thing as the argument for slot vs higher limit. Yes a 50lb bass produces more eggs but they're probably 100 times more fish that would be in the slot range vs 1@36 range, so you will get more eggs by raising it to 1@36. Either way both are to blame, but it seems you blame commercial for everything when thats not the case. If there was the same amount of rec fisherman as they're were commercial fisherman then you can definitely blame the commercial side for how much more they keep and sell, but its not even close. 

Edited by canalsharpie

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4 hours ago, GuiltyAsCharged said:

Thanks for the kind words Mike, but I can read quite well. Look at the text that says 'Rec dead rel' under the 2017 heading top left of the chart. Says 48%. Look at the yellow portion of the bar above the year 2016. What percent of the total length of that bar do you estimate to be yellow? Please help me with this.

 

2017 striper mortality.jpg

Again, you aren't reading the chart correctly, the total length of the 2017 bar is the total fish killed, recreational and commercially. The yellow bar is slightly longer than the gray bar, which is consistent with the statistics in the upper left hand corner.

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3 hours ago, Stonesipher said:

Generally they don't even spawn until 28" so removing them before they get a turn at breeding is absolutely foolish

 

Generally speaking you're absolutely wrong 90% of the fish start spawning at 24 inches, go look it up on the ASMFC's website.

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44 mins ago, MakoMike said:

Generally speaking you're absolutely wrong 90% of the fish start spawning at 24 inches, go look it up on the ASMFC's website.

Generally speaking you're absolutely wrong.....hahahaa kinda funny way to frame things

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Help me with some remedial math here please?

Is this chart saying that for every 100 dead fish in 2017, 48 came from recreational release?

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1 hour ago, FoliFish said:

Help me with some remedial math here please?

Is this chart saying that for every 100 dead fish in 2017, 48 came from recreational release?

 in the millions but yeah. 48% of the dead fish were from rec releases. It’s just a sheer numbers game based on the amount we catch and the amount of recs there is. I probably keep 2 bass a year while rec fishing for the table but between schoolies and all sizes I probably catch and release another 150-200 bass a season so at the 9%, I’m killing another 14-18 fish that die after release. Whether that’s from predation after release, tired, water temp or etc. Which doesn’t seem like a ton but when you add up all the rec fisherman from MA, RI, CT, NH, NY, VA, MD, NJ, plus visiting it’s a lot of fish.

Edited by canalsharpie

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Thanks.  That's what I thought but wasn't quite sure.  Still seems high to me, but then again WTH do I know.  I'll have to read up on the methodology behind this to get a better idea.

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On ‎8‎/‎7‎/‎2019 at 0:52 PM, GuiltyAsCharged said:

The recreational numbers are all anecdotal. The recreational mortality rate is not only anecdotal, but the chart is no where close to the 8% reference in the article. It would be hard to say the numbers are anything close to exact science.

Anecdote is the opposite of data.  the data that underlie the study are based on the MRIP program, it is collected and estimated data.  Yes they don't count every fish that is caught or dies, but they can create a reasonable model that produces a result that isn't perfect, but good enough to manage the stock.  

 

The mortality rate is computed using the 9%, so the chart exactly reflects the estimated 9% mortality rate.  48% of all dead stripers in their model come from multiplying the total recreational catch by .09.   The remaining 52% come from rec harvest and commercial harvest/release.

 

Statistics aren't an exact science, they produce a representative model.  The model for striper stocks and mortality seem to work pretty well, they reported that the stocks were high when there were a ton of fish around, for a long time they have shown the stock has been declining.  The managers have chosen not to respond until pre-set thresholds were hit.  Management response is very different from modeling.

 

Edited by Slappy

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On 8/7/2019 at 11:46 AM, GuiltyAsCharged said:

That chart shows a rec release mortality rate of 48% for 2017.

 

That's not the mortaility rate.  That is the % of removals (dead fish) as a result of C&R.  (discards)  

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On 8/8/2019 at 0:58 PM, canalsharpie said:

 Which doesn’t seem like a ton but when you add up all the rec fisherman from MA, RI, CT, NH, NY, VA, MD, NJ, plus visiting it’s a lot of fish.


Exactly, take your 14 fish a year and multiply it by  what?   How many rec striper fisher people are there out there who catch that many fish in a season? 

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