Angler #1

Make it A Crime Against the Environment

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37 posts in this topic

12 hours ago, bob_G said:

Yea well, good luck with that.

Thanks for the luck we all we need some at some point that i am sure of . We can continue to spout words of no enforcement by the court system as we all have been doing since before I became involved with SOL a whole bunch of years ago, or try at least to see if something can be accomplished some where in the future . We need changes not continued spouts that do not accomplish the goals we all are trying to see get enforced. We have nothing to lose as all of the words from the past have not got us anywhere at all . At least it is worth having a discussion around making all fin fish violations a crime against the environment . perhaps it might work then what? Perhaps it will not, however only time will tell. We already know all of the time we have spent  posting it here over a bunch of years did not get us any where , so who knows only the shadow knows as the old saying goes.

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I think what BobG is trying to convey is “crime against the environment” is a meaningless phrase.  There is no legal or regulatory definition for the phrase, and it carries no weight of law.

 

For example, whether someone is poaching fish, filling in a wetland or even dumping hazardous waste, there’s no law called “crimes against the environment.”

 

Each individual environmental violation is described in the statute and regulation that deals with the violation.  Fish and Wildlife refs deal with poaching.  Wetlands Protection act deals with wetlands.  Hazardous Waste refs deal with storage and handling of haz waste.

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53 mins ago, Jonesy02719 said:

I think what BobG is trying to convey is “crime against the environment” is a meaningless phrase.  There is no legal or regulatory definition for the phrase, and it carries no weight of law.

 

For example, whether someone is poaching fish, filling in a wetland or even dumping hazardous waste, there’s no law called “crimes against the environment.”

 

Each individual environmental violation is described in the statute and regulation that deals with the violation.  Fish and Wildlife refs deal with poaching.  Wetlands Protection act deals with wetlands.  Hazardous Waste refs deal with storage and handling of haz waste.

You will notice that in my postings on this subject I also indicated that it will take an act of the legislative body to give this meaning the status it deserves. If this goes before both the house and senate in the Massachusetts legislator and gets approved then you will have another new meaning to apply when handing out fines and also close the wide range of discretionary power that the Environmental Police now have and it would apply to all and every one equally and with fairness . This may well then apply in the court system to other types of violations like house breaking, armed robbery ect.   It will as a result of being brought before the legislators and approved then for ever become a law called Crimes against the environment . It can be done with numbers and concerned folks on all sides of the equation . It will once it becomes a law a real powerful deterrent to all fin fish violations.

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59 mins ago, Angler #1 said:

You will notice that in my postings on this subject I also indicated that it will take an act of the legislative body to give this meaning the status it deserves. If this goes before both the house and senate in the Massachusetts legislator and gets approved then you will have another new meaning to apply when handing out fines and also close the wide range of discretionary power that the Environmental Police now have and it would apply to all and every one equally and with fairness . This may well then apply in the court system to other types of violations like house breaking, armed robbery ect.   It will as a result of being brought before the legislators and approved then for ever become a law called Crimes against the environment . It can be done with numbers and concerned folks on all sides of the equation . It will once it becomes a law a real powerful deterrent to all fin fish violations.

I’m sorry Angler#1, I’m not seeing the logic here.  If you want to make the violations and resulting repercussions more intense, then just change the individual law(s).  There’s no way it would be feasible (or warranted) to change all laws and regulations to reflect some made up phrase “Crimes against the environment”.   Not all violations are even criminal.  There’s administrative and regulatory violations that aren’t criminal.

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On 8/10/2019 at 3:01 PM, Jonesy02719 said:

I’m sorry Angler#1, I’m not seeing the logic here.  If you want to make the violations and resulting repercussions more intense, then just change the individual law(s).  There’s no way it would be feasible (or warranted) to change all laws and regulations to reflect some made up phrase “Crimes against the environment”.   Not all violations are even criminal.  There’s administrative and regulatory violations that aren’t criminal.

You are absolutely correct, we only need to change the-laws that affect the overall health of the species in question to address the seriousness of the laws as it relates to poaching, fishing without a permit, size and number limits and why it is needed in order to help the resource deal with ever decreasing numbers as a result of just these infractions

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On 8/7/2019 at 6:21 PM, bob_G said:

I'm not sure changing the terminology to a "crime against the environment" will gain much traction.  It's redundant. After all, isn't it the Enviromental Police who enforce the enviromental laws? IMO it's fairly self explanatory.

Make it a federal charge.. increase fines and for the love of all that is holy Take the gear..charity auction at yrs end proceeds go to canal patrols

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