snapper1

Opal 9-10 Input

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Posted (edited) · Report post

One thing to note is that if you add the weight of that 10ft poly to the 510g weight of the 12w Rio OBS, what you are likely doing is throwing closer to 560g (or more) overhead, which is what Tightlines said.   That's also a 40' head +tip combination which is only 14.5 grains per foot avg.   Plenty of power in that rod to throw that kind of weight.  I can throw 33 feet of T-17 on that rod (or my similar older one).   Not pretty but works.

 

The reason why it feels better with a tip is that the tip is helping to add weight as well as length which I believe is making up for the problem(s) you were having with the timing of delivery and the pile up.  Not saying your technique is good, because haven't seen it, but it sounds like for your current ability and speed you prefer a longer, heavier head + tip. 

 

The difference in recommendations for this rod are well within the range that most TH rods this short and powerful can accept.  450g to 580 or so is possibly the right range to play with.  515g is a good middle weight.  550g+ will require a slower stroke.   450 would allow you to increase the speed of your stroke and possibly get you extra distance, with practice.   Just my opnion, but it is based on trying many different line/weight combinations on the Beulah 9/10.

Edited by Killiefish

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Killie 

 

If a rod requires you to slow down your casting stroke with a line that is within its stated line range . Then its rating is wrong.

 

Can’t  ever recall anyone being asked to do something similar with a SH rod.

 

Line matching  to TH rods used in the ocean often are not great.

 

Very few guys do it and very few understand the whole picture.

 

Ok I am odds with almost everyone I know including my good  friend Esa.

 

But I have good reason to be.

 

No surprise there then.

 

Mike

 

 

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Posted (edited) · Report post

I didn't mean that he (personally) would have to slow down, because clearly he is throwing 560+ (maybe more like 580g) and thinks it works o.k. at his current speed.

 

All rods can throw a range of line weights.   I have a 13ft 7wt that is labeled 450 to 700g, albeit it is a spey rod designed to throw heavy heads and tips.   I would never want to throw it with 700g.   I'd have to be moving like they do in "the Matrix" or stop drinking coffee.

 

What I'm proposing is simply that what works for the OP seems to be well within the range the rod can throw.  Also, that Red's recommendation of 450g and Moy's at 560g are well WITHIN the tolerance of that specific rod.  There is no stated range of weights for that rod, but in practice I have found that to be the range that appears close to what it would be if it were labeled so actually I agree with both Red and Tightlines....

 

Also, a good caster can adjust to compensate for an underweight or overweight line (relative to the rod's rating) by at least 2 line weights.  My comment about slowing down is simply that when I note that a rod is heavily loaded I tend to slow down - mainly to let the rod do the work.

Edited by Killiefish

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But he was not casting the rod beyond its capability according to rating  when casting 550.

 

So it should not need any adjustment. 

 

Definitely agree that if you over cook a rod then you will have to slow the cast down. Sometimes that’s ok others time it matters a lot.

 

Whilst a good caster can compensate at the upper end if you over cook things then there will be a loss in performance. It’s the price we pay.

 

I have noticed a tendency for TH to be overloaded just like SH rods.

 

mike

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Also, for the record, I did say that I felt the rod to feel overloaded somewhere above ~550g. If 550g no prob but when I added a tip (the tip IIRC was 10' poly or maybe 8.5ft of T-10) it felt overloaded.

 

What I said:

 

"I have tried using a Wulff Ambush 13wt line on it (550 grains and 30ft).  If I use the head alone it can handle it, but if I add a tip it overloads the rod when casting THOH."

 

This was my experience, and experiences vary.

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Posted (edited) · Report post

4 mins ago, Mike Oliver said:

But he was not casting the rod beyond its capability according to rating  when casting 550.

 

So it should not need any adjustment. 

 

Definitely agree that if you over cook a rod then you will have to slow the cast down. Sometimes that’s ok others time it matters a lot.

 

Whilst a good caster can compensate at the upper end if you over cook things then there will be a loss in performance. It’s the price we pay.

 

I have noticed a tendency for TH to be overloaded just like SH rods.

 

mike

Exactly what I am saying.  I felt a loss of performance at above 550g.  Caveat: but I didn't try 560g through 590g, I tried around 600g to about 635g (just doin the maths).

 

Mike, there is no "rating" printed on this rod.  "The rating" is what I say it is....;  )

 

Edited by Killiefish

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Posted (edited) · Report post

12 hours ago, snapper1 said:

.........

I contacted Tight Lines in NJ and they recommand 560 grs for the rod...That is what they actually use...

 

I'm puzzled.

 

Edit. I need lessons.

The several other Tight Lines recommendations that I've seen also seemed on the high side.

Edited by GregPavlov

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Posted (edited) · Report post

If you look at Bears Den site, they still have the line recommendations for the older Beulah Surf Rods, which I find are right on.  Outbound Short 10 (425g) for the 7/8, Outbound 11 (465g) for the 8/9, and Outbound 12 (510g) for the 9/10.  All of the line recommendations above OB 10w were "tropical"

 

As i understand it, Beulah lightened up the Opal rods a bit, and they are a bit faster, so....YMMV.   Also, they did away with the 8/9 and now only have a 7/8 and a 9/10.  

 

There are also other line recommendations for different uses, there, as follows:

 

"Surf Rod - 11' 7/8wt
~ Grain Window (so far): 450gr +or-
~ Beulah Serum 450
~ Rio Outbound Short 10wt
~ Scientific Anglers Streamer Express 450gr
~ Rio Outbound 10wt
~ Skagit Casting: Tonic Spey 500gr (plus tips)

 

Surf Rod - 11' 8/9wt
~ Grain Window (so far): 500gr +or-
~ Beulah Serum 500
~ Rio Tropi Outbound Short 11wt (No Outbound Short offered over 10wts)
~ Rio Outbound 11wt
~ Scientific Anglers Bonefish 10wt Float
~ Scientific Anglers Bonefish 10wt Intermediate
~ Scientific Anglers Streamer Express 450gr
~ Skagit Casting: Tonic Spey 550gr (plus tips)

 

Surf Rod - 11' 9/10wt
~ Grain Window (so far): 500-550+or-
~ Beulah Serum 550
~ Rio Tropi Outbound Short 12wt (No Outbound Short offered over 10wts)
~ Rio Outbound 12wt
~ Scientific Anglers Bluewater Express 500gr
~ Skagit Casting : Tonic Spey 600gr (plus tips)"

 

I find it interesting that they also recommend a Scientific Anglers Bonefish line for the 8/9, but not a Scientific Anglers Tarpon 11w, 12w or even 13wt line for the 9/10.  The best general purpose integrated lines for the 9/10 rod (older model) that I've found are labeled as Tarpon lines (12 or 13wt mostly).  Got to look around at old stock lines to find the 13wts, but 12's are not uncommon.  Some 11wt intermediate tarpon lines are very heavy (475g or so, and a nice match for either the 8/9 or the 9/10).

 

The use of the words "so far" above, indicates that when the earlier rods came out, Beulah didn't really have a clear idea of how much grains were needed.

Edited by Killiefish

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Posted (edited) · Report post

Earlier I had said that it seemed the beluah rods were spey rated in the sense that they would work well with single handed lines 3 weights heavier than the spey rating.

 

But I have CCS data for the opal 7/8 and it seems to me that I was wrong on what I said, given what I know of the grains:grams ratio I prefer (1:1 or 1.1:1). It has IP209 and while I don't have it's AA it seems a similar flex profile to my pac bay 9'10wt which is 66 degrees. 

 

So basically it's an 11' 8wt rod, single hand rating. I'd use a single handed line for it, with a head probably around 220 grains. I don't see the point. I can single hand cast 450 grains no problem so it's gotta be 550+ for me to actually want a TH rod. 

Edited by RedGreen

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Posted (edited) · Report post

Hmmmmm....big difference.  Greg on this forum has that rod (Opal 7/8) and just posted some thoughts on it....but not the same as yours.  He said 375g or maybe I missed it.  That's at least a 9/10 single hand line, suggesting that the rods are "rated" more toward the spey scale than single hand scale.

 

I have heard several users say that a 10w OBS (425g) on that rod's older sibling is pretty dialed.  But I don't have that one.  I have the older 9/10w.  Also, it does seem that Beulah decided to leave out the 8/9wt when creating the Opal series, partly becuase the 8/9 and 9/10 were so similar (500g suggested by Beulah, vs 500-550+ for the 9/10, which seems odd, unless the + signifies more than a 10% difference)

Edited by Killiefish

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