707steelnstripe

HOW WILL THE STRIPAPOCALYPSE BE REGULATED THIS TIME???!

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1 hour ago, Aaron Barmmer said:

Sad story.  Make em like the tarpon! Game fish    Go eat a flounder you pricks ! 

I agree. Go gamefish status. Regulate the breeding zones, actually regulate the beaches where (not to be “insensitive” or political) but migrants seem to always be keeping under sized fish with no discipline. While I believe the C&R data is def plausible at the canal and other high catch rate areas, it def doesn’t hold up to local beach fishermen say out here on Longisland. I know someone will cite the study, but being out every night almost for the whole fall run I see maybe a few big fish caught by “hardcore” guys standing in the wash. Usually have gopros or a water proof phone case snap a pic and right back in the water. However my Instagram is filled with huge breeders spread all over the decks of charter/party boats, blood all over not even on ice, day after day, multiple trips a day. Spear fishing in MTK is like shooting fish in a barrel...and I say this with a close family friend who owns a charter for it. It’s not fair to punish the entire population of recreational fishermen who wait to go fishing all winter long, practice good C&R and are in it for the sport. Also it isn’t just the Instagram generation, heck I see so many so called “old timers” rushing to ‘ye ole tackle shop’ to throw their half rotted breeder on the old scale and pose for a picture in front of aforementioned tackle shop. And yes I also believe the farming of bunker for fish oil, etc is also a large problem. Boat guys will blame surf, and surf will blame boat guys. But in the end what’s better? C&R and a exaggerated mortality rate, or guaranteed death by trolling or chunking with improper hooks. I’d rather have fun catching fish, being outdoors, etc, and not being allowed to keep anything than banning fishing for Stripers outright for a few years just so it can than reopen so you can have a fish dinner again, then the cycle repeats. Hell look at redfish. /rant

Edited by jk20a3

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10 hours ago, 707steelnstripe said:

How is that going to stop the HEROES OF INSTAGRAM, FACEBOOK, AND YOUTUBE who practiced ethical "catch and release" "releasing" their fish after quickly lifting them out of the water with a boga grip after running up the bank to rummage through the $300 patagonia bags to find their scale to weigh the fish gasping on the bank and then set up their camera then take their picture with the fish out of the water then spend 5 seconds "reviving it" before letting swim off to die? '

 

What about the folks who love to find a school of 16" fish and catch 300 of them? 

 

What about these poeple? You must stop all fishing to prevent the loss of the species. 

I agree and this class of individuals definitely ranks highly in terms

of my least favorite—the type of people who just love the smell of their own farts. 

 

Personally, I’d like to see a class attached to the sale of a license that demonstrates ethical catch and release practices as well as general habits for reducing harm on the environment, fishery, and future. Make it an annual requirement to purchasing a license and allow it to create some job when the need for instructors arises, seems logical enough to me, but I’m sure it’s wishful thinking. 

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I recently filled out the NJFG survey. In the comments section I expressed my belief that the major problem is not what the regs are, but rather the lack of F&G enforcement of the regs. Consider this - if there were no State Troopers on the GS Parkway or NJ Turnpike, how many drivers do you think would obey the speed limit. It's human nature.  I see it all the time in the Point Pleasant Canal - before Sandy, the Marine Police Station was manned 24/7 with an officer on station in their rotunda, from which you can see the entire length of the canal.  So every boat came down off plane when they entered the canal, thus obeying the posted "No Wake Zone" signs.  And if they didn't the Marine Police were in their high speed rigid hull inflatable, waiting for them when they got to the vicinity of the Station.  Then that Dumb A*s Chris Christie made the station his headquarters right after Sandy, and decided the Marine Police were a waste of money.  Now the station is manned by State Police who are, for all intents and purposes "home for dinner" and every boater knows it.  You haven't lived until you are fishing off the wall in the dark and some obnoxious idiot not only swerves toward the wall when they see you but throws a large enough wake to throw water over the wall at you.  Say something and you get an "F**k You" reply.  

Sorry for the long analogy, but the same thing occurs in terms of folks obeying the fishing regs - I personally can count on less than one hand the number of times I have encountered an F&G officer, and I have fished Ocean County Salt Water since 1981 - up until 2009, I would fish at least 4 times per week from March 1st to December 23rd - do the math.  Do you think the morons (of every ethnicity), that fish the Raritan River every spring run of breeders, would be culling 20lb+ fish if they thought F&G was anywhere in the area? Of course not.  But history has taught them that there is virtually zero probability that they will be caught - even if there is a moratorium, these A-holes that have their kids running around in the dark, in diapers, while they basically poach Stripers, will continue fishing, unless some NJ bureaucrat gets off their overpaid a*s and hires more F&G to enforce the regs, and the politicians pass some F&G violation penalties that have teeth.  Violators should, on the spot, lose all assets that facilitated their actions - take their tackle (every last bit of it) and the means of transportation by which they arrived at the place in which the violation occurred - be it a boat, car, truck, van or bicycle - this will solve the issue of illegals not showing up in court to pay their measly fine.  Folks only stop prohibited behavior when there are painful and, most importantly, instantaneous consequences that can not be evaded. :soapbox:

Edited by FlatWing

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Flatwing is absolutely right. There is no oversight. The most I see f&g in Connecticut is trout fishing the rivers or in the fall for snapper blues. 

 

Canal two weeks... Saw them in the parking lot one time (6am after most guys already took their extra fish with them and left). Not once were they down at the canal itself walking around checking licenses.

 

Connecticut same thing. Never been asked while striper fishing for a license check or anything.

 

 

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10 hours ago, chris koltz said:

Maryland is one of the largest commercial fishing mafias on the east coast. One commercial day spent by 1 boat will kill more fish than I will kill in my life. I've been in money boats in 3 different states the bye catch is staggering.Why do birds follow these boats = to eat all the shorts and bye catch that die. The area you mentioned are they allowed to net in the general area? I might be wrong just my opinion. I can't afford to buy a study to support my opinion.

 

No might, you are wrong. 

 

Rec anglers are the problem here, plain and simple.

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17 hours ago, 707steelnstripe said:

Narcissism is the root cause of our striper decline, imho. 

Narcissism is the root of all sin.

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Gentlemen, a Little History-The only thing that saved the Striped Bass during the early 80's was The PCB Scare. During that time The amount of PCB's that was considered dangerous was 2ppm (Parts Per Million).  Commercial Fishing was banned and a Moratorium was created that put an end to the keeping of any bass.  It lasted only one season in NY but longer in other states. Throughout those moratorium and later years many anglers began to practice Catch & Release.  NY instituted a 36" size limit. The C & R did not seem to effect The Stocks as some here indicate it does. Then out of the blue, Some Scientist who were commissioned by The Commercial Fishing Industry began to state that The 2ppm of BCP's was inaccurate. They insisted that a bass that contained 5 ppm of PCB's was safe to consume. Overnight, a fish that was dangerous to eat due to toxins was now safe to consume. Why?? Just go to The NY DEC Site and view the amount of Stripedbass one can safely eat. That being said, you cannot place the blame of the Current Stripers Demise on the backs of The Commercial Sector.  Recreational Fishermen throughout the Northeast are also responsible.  Many call for a Gamefish Status for the bass.  Well, you have one in NJ and now The Recs can legally take 3 bass (with a special tag) a day.  Can you imagine taking 3 bass in the morning, going home only to return for a night tide and take one or two additional. I know there are no bass in NJ. If A Gamefish Status is ever instituted in New York, the ink on Como's Signature would not be dry when The Party/Charter Boat Lobby will cry for and no doubt receive the Commercial Quota.  So what was accomplished?

Many on this site will cry and moan if a License Fee of say $100 per season was instituted to pay for more enforcement.  Yet, they complain about everything and everyone, but will not put up themselves.  I have only kept 2 bass since the Fall of 1980 when I realized that the stocks were in trouble.  I even release fish that appear to be Injured.  It is my belief that if one keeps a fish it has NO Chance Of Surviving.  However, if that fish is released it may have a 1 in 100 chance of survival.  Thus, The Odds Favor Release.  In my opinion, and I am aware of getting criticized on this site, is that there should be a one or two year moratorium effecting both Recreational and Commercial Fishermen followed by a size limit for both say around 32".  Gentlemen, I am sorry for my rant but I feel that both sectors have to work together. 

 

sb

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Posted (edited) · Report post

Total commercial and recreational moratorium on Striper fishing for 10-years - then, 1-fish per day under 28-inches with a $5,000 fine and loss of salt-water fishing license for life for violators - and - award Game Wardens $1,000 per conviction and watch how serious they get about enforcement.

The only way to deal with human greed and selfishness is with a big hammer.

Edited by The Zen Master

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18 hours ago, chris koltz said:

I think the info that is being floated about catch and release and mortality is total manufactured BS.

I would bet you can track this BS back to the commercial fishing lobby and it's political lobby.

Read Striper wars if you want to see how diabolical some of these folks are and how easy it is make a study say what you want.

I have friends in the industry that are good people so please don't feel like I'm referring to all commercial fishermen but there lobby is a brutal cutthroat political operation.

It's not BS, but it has to be taken in context.

 

The terminal year of the stock assessment was 2017.  There were a lot of fish in Chesapeake Bay from the 2015 year class that were too small to make the 20" minimum size, but were still being gut-hooked on bait being fished for the "big" 20-inchers, being caught during the summr when warm, hypoxic water and very warm air made survival after release problematic, etc.  Charter boats were talking about catching and releasing scores of fish for each one released.  Anglers experienced the same thing.  Biologists estimate that 9% of all released fish die.

 

Along the coast, that 9% mortality resulted in a relatively typical number of dead fish.  In Chesapeake Bay, mortality was very high (remember that under the current rules, recreational fishermen in Chesapeake Bay were supposed to reduce fishing mortality by 20.5%, compared to 2012, beginning in 2015; instead, a 2016 assessment update found that the Chesapeake's recreational fishermen actually increased landings by more than 50%, and that number has increased since).  If you look at state by state numbers, you'll find that most of the release mortality occurred in only a very few states, with Maryland dominating.

 

Beginning in 2018, Maryland began requiring circle hooks in the striped bass bait fishery, but it also dropped its minimum size by an inch, so the reduced release mortality was offset, and maybe more than offset, by increased landings.

 

The release mortality numbers are probably good, but 2017 was probably also a unique year in that respect.

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13 hours ago, jimmythe bee said:

could seals ,pesticide runoff and corporate bunker harvesting have anything to do with our troubles?

Seals and a lack of forage would be accounted for in the natural mortality figure; pesticides as they impact recruitment or other factor.  Fishing mortality stands outside of those calculations.

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12 hours ago, Aaron Barmmer said:

Sad story.  Make em like the tarpon! Game fish    Go eat a flounder you pricks ! 

Winter flounder don't exist either, at least outside the area around Boston, MA.

 

And fluke--summer flounder--have been pretty scarce around here (Long Island, NY) lately, too, although they're doing better than the bass are.

 

Not too many fish around so far this season to switch efforts toward, other than porgy and black sea bass, unless you can get offshore for bluefin.

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18 hours ago, chris koltz said:

I think the info that is being floated about catch and release and mortality is total manufactured BS.

I would bet you can track this BS back to the commercial fishing lobby and it's political lobby.

Read Striper wars if you want to see how diabolical some of these folks are and how easy it is make a study say what you want.

I have friends in the industry that are good people so please don't feel like I'm referring to all commercial fishermen but there lobby is a brutal cutthroat political operation.

The mortality rate for released fish is based on a study performed by the MA DNR. Shouldn't be any bias there.

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Posted (edited) · Report post

15 mins ago, CWitek said:

It's not BS, but it has to be taken in context.

 

The terminal year of the stock assessment was 2017.  There were a lot of fish in Chesapeake Bay from the 2015 year class that were too small to make the 20" minimum size, but were still being gut-hooked on bait being fished for the "big" 20-inchers, being caught during the summr when warm, hypoxic water and very warm air made survival after release problematic, etc.  Charter boats were talking about catching and releasing scores of fish for each one released.  Anglers experienced the same thing.  Biologists estimate that 9% of all released fish die.

 

Along the coast, that 9% mortality resulted in a relatively typical number of dead fish.  In Chesapeake Bay, mortality was very high (remember that under the current rules, recreational fishermen in Chesapeake Bay were supposed to reduce fishing mortality by 20.5%, compared to 2012, beginning in 2015; instead, a 2016 assessment update found that the Chesapeake's recreational fishermen actually increased landings by more than 50%, and that number has increased since).  If you look at state by state numbers, you'll find that most of the release mortality occurred in only a very few states, with Maryland dominating.

 

Beginning in 2018, Maryland began requiring circle hooks in the striped bass bait fishery, but it also dropped its minimum size by an inch, so the reduced release mortality was offset, and maybe more than offset, by increased landings.

 

The release mortality numbers are probably good, but 2017 was probably also a unique year in that respect.

The study that the 9% release mortality was based on took place in MA not MD. Other studies that focused more on the Chesapeake Bay put the mortality number much higher than the 9% from the Diodati study.

Edited by MakoMike

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