drmevo

Trouble casting Airflo Ridge intermediate

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115 posts in this topic

3 hours ago, drmevo said:

So maybe 40-50 foot casts, with the occasional 60 footer.  

You are making a major error concentrating on how far you cast at this stage and focusing on your equipment.  Been there and done that.

To improve you need to concentrate instead on how WELL you cast.

What did your loops look like?

Where the top and bottom legs parallel and close together or divergent arcs?

Is the fly leg (i.e., the top leg) traveling parallel to the ground or in an arc?

When you drop your back cast to the ground behind you does it layout straight on a line from your target, or squiggly and off to one side?  Or, even worse, in a collapsed pile? 

How much effort and arm travel are you expending?

Are you hitting the ground behind you?   

Are you feeling line tension through your line hand continuously through out the cast (until release)?

If any of these questions reveal a problem do you understand fly casting dynamics enough to diagnose what is causing it and how to remedy it? 

 

Technique.......not equipment......is the road to becoming a proficient caster.  Repetitive practice with bad technique creates long term problems and frustrations (been there and done that as well).  

Correcting bad technique requires knowledge.  Which is different than internet advice. 

If you are serious about fly fishing seeking out that knowledge will help you far more than expensive rods and various fly lines. 

  

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On 7/9/2019 at 7:56 AM, RedGreen said:

RJ

 

Honestly I wasn't aware of me doing any circling with my double haul, I never had anyone to teach me it so I kind of just figured it out myself. I've probably got some problems ingrained somewhere but I've basically just learned to do whatever gave me the best output from my haul, speed wise. I doubt I'd be any good as a teacher but still I am all for giving it a try! 

The old fella probably means that you are doing the "Double Haul Triangle" There are three points of the triangle and you move between them on the haul. You might be moving around a bit on the bottom point creating illusion of that circle that confused the guy???

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9 mins ago, numbskull said:

You are making a major error concentrating on how far you cast at this stage and focusing on your equipment.  Been there and done that.

To improve you need to concentrate instead on how WELL you cast.

What did your loops look like?

Where the top and bottom legs parallel and close together or divergent arcs?

Is the fly leg (i.e., the top leg) traveling parallel to the ground or in an arc?

When you drop your back cast to the ground behind you does it layout straight on a line from your target, or squiggly and off to one side?  Or, even worse, in a collapsed pile? 

How much effort and arm travel are you expending?

Are you hitting the ground behind you?   

Are you feeling line tension through your line hand continuously through out the cast (until release)?

If any of these questions reveal a problem do you understand fly casting dynamics enough to diagnose what is causing it and how to remedy it? 

 

Technique.......not equipment......is the road to becoming a proficient caster.  Repetitive practice with bad technique creates long term problems and frustrations (been there and done that as well).  

Correcting bad technique requires knowledge.  Which is different than internet advice. 

If you are serious about fly fishing seeking out that knowledge will help you far more than expensive rods and various fly lines. 

  

 

I agree with NUMBSKULL. Distance will be greatly aided by focusing on fundamentals. It won't take you long before seeing results. Need to learn the double haul cast. And how to correct problems encountered with it. Ain't rocket science and with youtube we can all be casting geniuses. 

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On 7/9/2019 at 9:01 AM, crunch said:

I must say that "loading the rod" is not proper way to cast a fly line. Yes it is beneficial to make rod bend but it is more important for the quality of line loop when line acceleration path becomes straighter. Think rod as a stick which you use to accelerate the line because that's what fly casting mostly is. Rod has a spring effect too but it has very small effect.

 

Too much rod bend leads to a Tailing Loop!

 

Line is not problem either and although casting OBS might speed up your fishing career, learning to use different lengths of line loops will make you better angler and not any slower.

 

If you can access internet on practice field search "Fly Casting Video Masterclass" and follow the lessons. You should go thru first few now when home and learn proper grip and to see what to expect. I recall fifth thrill make you cast proper line loops. PUALD is also very good lesson.

 

Esa

 

Excellent informative posting! "Loading the rod" leads to hauling being completeed way to early. 

 

Basically the loading should happen quickly at either end of the cast!!!

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Numbskul

 

Just about the hardest advice to get guys to take on board is what you are suggesting.

 

This is a general statement and not aimed at OP.

 

If I am  wrong casting teachers would be booked up solid every day of the week.

 

And yet getting our fly to the fish is fundamental to success.

 

Most will spend money on gear but not where the very best bang for their buck can be won.

 

Go figure. I can’t.

 

mike

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4 hours ago, drmevo said:

I went out in the yard with the Airflo last night for some practice. Nice night with minimal wind.  I have an archery target set up where I can stand at 20 yards with another 20 yards to work with behind me. I was able to get my fly within about 10 feet of the target fairly regularly (5 foot leader). So maybe 40-50 foot casts, with the occasional 60 footer. As I think about it, I think the big difference has really been that I've been able to punch through the wind with the Rio and get the line to lay out straight more consistently. I guess this makes sense given the difference in line types? I don't know about you guys, but there is pretty much always some wind in the places I fish.

 

You should be practicing your loops and double haul now. You can have a target for fun. But practice loops and double haul and learning the ins and outs of that. Learning how to "edit your cast" will be major step forward. Don't think, do. ACT. 

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On 7/9/2019 at 9:54 AM, Mike Oliver said:

If you are struggling with your cast and your post is suggesting this the real issue it is not the line type it is your cast.

Does not matter what line you string your rod up with it will not solve a casting problem.

 

You could well cast a short head 80 feet all day long but you will still need a good cast to do that. Both short and long head have their place.

 

There are no short cuts.

 

Mike

 

I respectfully would say there are indeed shortcuts, and the heavier outbound lines are shortcuts. And they don't solve the problem because when you use different line, you suck at casting. That's why Crunch is right. You need to work on casting mechanics--talking to original post fella. 

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Posted (edited) · Report post

Everything else aside, think about taking a casting class with a pro. I bet it really helps you out with this (and any number of other situations.) I just took one two weeks ago after 25+ years of teaching myself.  For about the price of a mid range fly line, I actually learned allot about how to adapt to various rod actions, conditions etc. I'm now throwing farther, with more consistansy (with any rod/line combo) and with less effort.  Best $ on the sport I ever spent (soem 80 fly rods later :-). 

Edited by WeeHooker

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20 hours ago, qecfly said:

OP the basic and short answer to your question is that in general over weighted lines are easier to cast for many beginners because they mask mistakes better than a line that is a proper match for the rod.  I throw VERY overweighted lines from my boat all the time because it is always blowing and the heavy lines simply cast farther for me with my casting skills when the wind is blowing (which is always it seems).  As your skill improve the Airflo line will be easier to cast but it may never be an ideal match for the rod you have.  These days the "weight" of the rod and lines don't mean much.

At the risk of being banned from all fly fishing threads I usually water load my full sinking lines from my boat and rarely double haul.  One false cast, touch down in the water behind me and shoot the whole line.  Figured this out on my own after a few seasons of using a spey rod in rivers and noticing how much less work it is to cast when you let the water do the work.  Love it!

Lastly, if you are using a long leader with the Airflo you might try a shorter or heavier one.  Perhaps 6' of straight 25 or 30lb mono. 

 

This technique is popular when fishing a really heavy fly. If you have the space just waterload. But most people fish from shore and look down on boaters so not worth discussing. 

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3 mins ago, WeeHooker said:

Everything else aside, think about thaking a casting class with a profesional. I bet it really helps you out with this (and any number of other situations.) I just took one two weeks ago after 25+ years of teaching myself.  For about the price of a mid range fly line, I actually learned allot about how to addapt to various rod actions, conditions etc. I'm now throwing farteher with more consistantly (with any rod/line combo) and with less effort.  Best $ on the sport I ever spent (soem 80 fly rods latter :-).  

 

Great idea. Also you can find lessons on line by certification-awarded fly casting instructors to learn from. Having someone teach would be even better. Filming oneself in the act (of fly casting) would also be good. Get someone else to film just make sure your rod and the line fits in the frame nicely and you have dark background to see it all. 

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707, I hear ya.  We look over at the beaches and refer to those casters as peasants!  I could never go back to just shore fishing.  However I do use my boat to get out to sand bars and fish from "shore" there on foot.  Usually have a few hours before the tide comes back in.

 

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7 mins ago, 707steelnstripe said:

 

I respectfully would say there are indeed shortcuts, and the heavier outbound lines are shortcuts. And they don't solve the problem because when you use different line, you suck at casting. That's why Crunch is right. You need to work on casting mechanics--talking to original post fella. 

Depends where someone is in their development. Short head line can help a person who has a recognisable rod stroke but not a totally raw beginner not very much.

 

There is just too much reliance on gear centered solutions.

 

If self teaching was so effective we would not see so much poor casting globally.

 

I liken it to kids. Kids need teachers at school to ,learn well. Same with fly casting. Very difficult to teach yourself. Can be done but again not many crack it.

 

How does OP teach himself how to DH and form loops . Many guys don’t  know why or how a good loop is formed.

 

Casting a fly should be easy but we make it hard by not getting instruction.

 

mike

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48 mins ago, numbskull said:

You are making a major error concentrating on how far you cast at this stage and focusing on your equipment.  Been there and done that.

To improve you need to concentrate instead on how WELL you cast.

What did your loops look like?

Where the top and bottom legs parallel and close together or divergent arcs?

Is the fly leg (i.e., the top leg) traveling parallel to the ground or in an arc?

When you drop your back cast to the ground behind you does it layout straight on a line from your target, or squiggly and off to one side?  Or, even worse, in a collapsed pile? 

How much effort and arm travel are you expending?

Are you hitting the ground behind you?   

Are you feeling line tension through your line hand continuously through out the cast (until release)?

If any of these questions reveal a problem do you understand fly casting dynamics enough to diagnose what is causing it and how to remedy it? 

 

Technique.......not equipment......is the road to becoming a proficient caster.  Repetitive practice with bad technique creates long term problems and frustrations (been there and done that as well).  

Correcting bad technique requires knowledge.  Which is different than internet advice. 

If you are serious about fly fishing seeking out that knowledge will help you far more than expensive rods and various fly lines. 

  

best advice in this thread...

 

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12 mins ago, Mike Oliver said:

Depends where someone is in their development. Short head line can help a person who has a recognisable rod stroke but not a totally raw beginner not very much.

 

There is just too much reliance on gear centered solutions.

 

If self teaching was so effective we would not see so much poor casting globally.

 

I liken it to kids. Kids need teachers at school to ,learn well. Same with fly casting. Very difficult to teach yourself. Can be done but again not many crack it.

 

How does OP teach himself how to DH and form loops . Many guys don’t  know why or how a good loop is formed.

 

Casting a fly should be easy but we make it hard by not getting instruction.

 

mike

 

That's true, guy. But youtube provides some great casting lessons. It's the next best thing to a live human being, and if you doubt that just ask yourself: why are the millenials having historically low amounts of sex?  

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52 mins ago, numbskull said:

You are making a major error concentrating on how far you cast at this stage and focusing on your equipment.  Been there and done that.

To improve you need to concentrate instead on how WELL you cast.

 

 Repetitive practice with bad technique creates long term problems and frustrations (been there and done that as well).  

Correcting bad technique requires knowledge.

  

 

When you have the knowledge about the fundamentals and how to correct problems you will  be able to make constructive changes to your casting on your own while fishing. 

 

But if you don't have the knowledge, then you will probably fall into the trap of "repetitive practice with bad technique" because the workarounds for problems will just make for other issues. 

 

Like trying to apply power at end of stroke and making a huge way too big loop or something! 

 

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