drmevo

Trouble casting Airflo Ridge intermediate

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11 hours ago, RJ said:

RedGreen.  When you cast my airflow ridge line (WF10I) testing my Heat 7' 4" one piece "HEAT" Bass Pro knock off of The GLoomis Short Stick in Harwich Port in June The whole line and backing you laid down on the Grass with your speed cast.  Next year i would appreciate a lesson on that little circle you put in play in you double haul is awesome. 

 

RJ

RJ

 

Honestly I wasn't aware of me doing any circling with my double haul, I never had anyone to teach me it so I kind of just figured it out myself. I've probably got some problems ingrained somewhere but I've basically just learned to do whatever gave me the best output from my haul, speed wise. I doubt I'd be any good as a teacher but still I am all for giving it a try! 

Edited by RedGreen

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20 hours ago, drmevo said:

I'm sure this is more my crappy technique than anything, but I'm having a hell of a time getting any distance with my Airflo Ridge 8wt intermediate line. I generally have much better success with Rio InTouch sink tip line that I bought for when I'm fishing fast current and deeper water. I have little trouble loading the rod with the Rio (L.L. Bean Streamlight Ultra II 8wt) but with the Airflo it feels so light in comparison. Is this just an expected difference in these line types and I need to adjust and get over it? I can get the Rio to lay out fairly straight but the Airflo piles up on me quite often. I know it's a nice line but at this point I'm reaching for the Rio spool pretty much all the time.

 

 

If you would like to make your fly fishing life easier, chuck the line you have in the garbage and get an integrated shooting head like a Rio OBS short. 

 

Aerializing the short heavy head on a line like the RIO OBS short is far easier than trying to aerialize the longer head on your line.  You might not be able to throw the Rio OBS 120 feet but you will be able to throw it 70-80 feet all day long LOL.

 

Purist feel free to shutter.

Edited by Cpalms

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I must say that "loading the rod" is not proper way to cast a fly line. Yes it is beneficial to make rod bend but it is more important for the quality of line loop when line acceleration path becomes straighter. Think rod as a stick which you use to accelerate the line because that's what fly casting mostly is. Rod has a spring effect too but it has very small effect.

 

Too much rod bend leads to a Tailing Loop!

 

Line is not problem either and although casting OBS might speed up your fishing career, learning to use different lengths of line loops will make you better angler and not any slower.

 

If you can access internet on practice field search "Fly Casting Video Masterclass" and follow the lessons. You should go thru first few now when home and learn proper grip and to see what to expect. I recall fifth thrill make you cast proper line loops. PUALD is also very good lesson.

 

Esa

Edited by crunch

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I have both those lines and see them as different tools.  I  carry more line on the backcast  with the Airflo or other longer head lines and prefer it for calmer waters for spooky fish and accuracy. The OBS is better for punching wind and bigger flies. The speed of my cast is the same with both, I just use more line slipped into the back cast for the lighter line. Therefore, the forward cast actually occurs in real time as slower. Basic casting 101:  Let your back cast straighten before you come forward. If you don't have much room, an OBS works better.

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1 hour ago, Cpalms said:

If you would like to make your fly fishing life easier, chuck the line you have in the garbage and get an integrated shooting head like a Rio OBS short. 

 

Aerializing the short heavy head on a line like the RIO OBS short is far easier than trying to aerialize the longer head on your line.  You might not be able to throw the Rio OBS 120 feet but you will be able to throw it 70-80 feet all day long LOL.

 

Purist feel free to shutter.

If you are struggling with your cast and your post is suggesting this the real issue it is not the line type it is your cast.

Does not matter what line you string your rod up with it will not solve a casting problem.

 

You could well cast a short head 80 feet all day long but you will still need a good cast to do that. Both short and long head have their place.

 

There are no short cuts.

 

Mike

Edited by Mike Oliver

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Thanks for the replies. I posted the thread not to complain about the Airflo line or anything like that - I fully realize it’s a great line and my issue is mainly my inexperience. I was wondering why I was having such an easier time with the Rio and what I might try doing differently to cast the Airflo more effectively. 

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If it is AF Cold SW I think it has almost perfect profile for overall use. About 8ft front taper makes line loop smooth even when fly is small but it has authority to turn big fly too. Rear taper is also about 8ft so it shoots quite fine when shy 30ft is out of rod but even 50ft line loop is possible to aerialize.

 

Esa

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20 mins ago, Cpalms said:

....for experts

Who are they. 

 

Seriously this not a difficult  line to cast for anyone who has a half decent cast.

 

 

For some reason a lot of us Fly Fishers look to gear for a solution to our casting problems. Sometimes it can help to a degree. But a bit of time invested in improving our cast will pay huge dividends .

 

I fished with two young guys this spring on the Cape. Their rods  not lines could not be described as high end in terms of what they paid for them one rod would be a pig for most of us to cast and yet they had both of them beautiful practically world class casts. Amazingly neither has had a formal casting lesson. They used video  to learn and lots of practice.

 

Most of us don’t have the time or won’t make the time.

 

Mike

 

 

 

Edited by Mike Oliver

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28 mins ago, Mike Oliver said:

Who are they. 

 

Seriously this not a difficult  line to cast for anyone who has a half decent cast.

 

 

For some reason a lot of us Fly Fishers look to gear for a solution to our casting problems. Sometimes it can help to a degree. But a bit of time invested in improving our cast will pay huge dividends .

 

I fished with two young guys this spring on the Cape. Their rods  not lines could not be described as high end in terms of what they paid for them one rod would be a pig for most of us to cast and yet they had both of them beautiful practically world class casts. Amazingly neither has had a formal casting lesson. They used video  to learn and lots of practice.

 

Most of us don’t have the time or won’t make the time.

 

Mike

 

 

 

Well, there are rank beginners like the OP and experts like you and Esa.  Only training can help the beginner and experts, like in many sports, have equipment requirements that are detrimental to large segment of us the lie between beginner and expert. 

 

If you take your basic 60-80 cast which 90% of mine are (and probably yours) - I just don't get what you can do with your line that I cannot do with my line?.... other than as Esa says the OBS will "speed up your fishing career". Which sounds pretty good to me.

 

I have no illusions about being an expert caster. I'm never going to be a 9 out of 10 caster and that's good with me. If I have free time, i'm going fishing.  Not to the park to practice cast and watch youtube videos.

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I like that I am still capable learning and I have learnt to cast short line heads better so I admit I have previously been too negagive. I release line earlier and the line loop run speed does not accelerate too much and the length of line I shoot comes almost as long as with longer head lines. But same earlier release has improved my long line head casting too. So the length what is fished, when stripping line, comes about the same using short line head but the area I am able to cover comes smaller.

 

Esa

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Ignore most of this thread, fly line threads become convoluted like DC comics origin threads.  

 

I just remembered that with this line I will strip in until maybe 20' of line is out, roll cast to shoot some line and then haul back, that extra line from the roll helps the rod load also, not sure if you are trying that but its worth  a go, helps load the rod.

 

TLDR: Guy wants some basic help on fly line, thread because a classic SOL technical showdown and war on class.

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Cp

 

You raise a good point that I had not considered. That equipment needed by top sportsman often is not suitable to others with less skill. That they will lose not gain any advantage from it.

 

 But does the Airflow long belly line fall into that category. 

 

I thought it did not. You do. For OP It  does based on his posts.

Simple solution  for OP which he adopted buy a short head line.

The alternative or one he could adopt and run concurrently is to also work on his cast. Depends on ambition.

 

At the same time if we are going to participate in any sport then a certain amount of effort is going to have to be applied. It is up to each individual as to how much that will be based on their own philosophy in terms of ambition tempered often for most of us by available time and money.

 

Time now there is a moot point. How much time does it take to get to a good level casting wise. Varies  individual to individual and what  tools are available  for them to use.   

In my experience of helping people cast a TH who  had never cast one before or had limited experience the learning curve was very steep. One guy was able within five minutes to put down a very good technical cast after simple instruction. Others around one hour. Invest say twenty hours and most I believe could achieve a very high level. Twenty hours compared to a life time of fly fishing is small.

I don’t consider myself a casting expert . Self  evaluation is fraught I would rate myself as competent and determined.

 

Ok coming back to the core argument then yes a long belly fly line will be more difficult for a very new Fly Fisher magnified if he / she has never had any formal or even informal casting help.

More  skill is required to airialise  a longer head. Question is how much more skill. I don’t know .

If a short head allows a new person to get out there and effectively get their fly in front of enough fish fantastic. If they decide not to advance their casting skills that is their choice .

That they may miss out on furthering their enjoyment is on the cards. We come back to personal choice and what each person is seeking to gain from the sport.

I do think it is right that new guys know about alternative gear and why and how it could be used and what is required skill set wise to use it and enjoy it.

To fail,to do that means we down grade the sports potential. Personally  I love   to have something to aspire to.

 

These long  belly lines can still be  cast pretty well with some of the head inside the rod guides or even more. Not many of us can get 15 yards of head and leader whilst wading into the air with good timing in the dark whilst wading waist deep without ticking the water. So we don’t. We keep some of the head inside the guides. Short heads can win here for expert or new casters.

 

So why do some of us like to cast them over short heads.

They do perform better casting into a head wind where line shooting is not an option as wind is too strong.

They are thinner and more sensitive when fishing a current as they cause less drag.

The other reasons are more subjective in my case I love the way they cast.

 

Just another thought. If these lines were only ever good for experts we would need to question the marketing decisions of line companies. Not going to sell very many.

Maybe they did just that and came out with SH ones.

 

Mike

 

 

 

 

Edited by Mike Oliver

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OP the basic and short answer to your question is that in general over weighted lines are easier to cast for many beginners because they mask mistakes better than a line that is a proper match for the rod.  I throw VERY overweighted lines from my boat all the time because it is always blowing and the heavy lines simply cast farther for me with my casting skills when the wind is blowing (which is always it seems).  As your skill improve the Airflo line will be easier to cast but it may never be an ideal match for the rod you have.  These days the "weight" of the rod and lines don't mean much.

At the risk of being banned from all fly fishing threads I usually water load my full sinking lines from my boat and rarely double haul.  One false cast, touch down in the water behind me and shoot the whole line.  Figured this out on my own after a few seasons of using a spey rod in rivers and noticing how much less work it is to cast when you let the water do the work.  Love it!

Lastly, if you are using a long leader with the Airflo you might try a shorter or heavier one.  Perhaps 6' of straight 25 or 30lb mono. 

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