codfish

Commercial season starts Monday

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If you think there is something wrong, immoral, or unsustainable about a hook and line fishery that is open twice a week for a couple months a year than you should not be eating any commercially caught wild seafood. And to do so is ignorant, plain and simple.

 

A lot of the guys bitching and moaning here have no problem eating dragger caught fish from seafood sally’s after an afternoon of lip ripping fun at the ditch.

Edited by Pescador710

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Regardless of what you do personally has no effect on the fact that the only limitation the recs have is one fish a day over 28 inches I can kill 365 fish a day as a rec. You can kill 6 fish a trip if you have 6 fares no restriction on number of trips. I am all for regulations for everybody,I no longer work in a tackle shop because of the lack of bass.if over fishing is truly the cause how came many species of fish that were not commercially sort are no longer aroundwhat happened to all the sanders that were along all the beachsof the Cape did Bobby and Chris kill them all

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43 mins ago, Riptide said:

I'll assume that's a shot at me.   So I'll respond.    I do around 50 striper trips a season.   That's around 200 people I take out.  Of those 200 people we kill around 10 or 15 bass on purpose for the YEAR.    My C&R mortality is extremely low, especially on larger fish as our big Lures are all rigged with single hooks.   I have looked at it and we are running around 2-3% MAX.  

 

The fact they had to.put into writing that Comms couldn't gaff shorts speaks volumes about their C&R practices.   

 

I respect the fish and I utilize it to make money.  But being smarter than the average bear, I look to the future.   Read the childrens story about the Golden Goose.   You might learn something.  

So Terry, you are making an argument where you make generalizations about comm fishermen but use very specific characteristics about your own charter practices. Let’s even the playing field and make generalizations about charter guys as well.

 

Some might not be pleased with the idea that boats are being hired by out of towners who lack the knowledge to find their own fish but do not lack the funds to hire experts so they can catch as many stripers as possible-sticking big sharp hooks in their face pulling them out of the water to take pictures so they can brag to their friends about how great they are. Even with an average mortality rate, bringing out 4-6 sports to catch dozens of bass every day of the week is going to kill a lot of fish- maybe even more than the comm quota. 

 

P.s. I took a shot at you in my post on page 3 but you did not care to respond... I’ll wait

Edited by Pescador710

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6 mins ago, Pescador710 said:

If you think there is something wrong, immoral, or unsustainable about a hook and line fishery that is open twice a week for a couple months a year than you should not be eating any commercially caught wild seafood. And to do so is ignorant, plain and simple.

 

A lot of the guys bitching and moaning here have no problem eating dragger caught fish from seafood sally’s after a fun afternoon of lip ripping fun at the ditch.

 

You are 100% WRONG.

 

There are DOZENS of things wrong with the Mass Comm fishery for starters.  It is inherently flawed from the get go.  I sell fish, NOT stripers.  I sell mahi in season.  Its EXTREMELY sustainable, and a clean hook and line fishery.  So I have no issue with killing a fish nor selling one.   So from that point of view, here are the issues with the Mass "Comm" fishery.

 

ISSUES WITH MASS COMM FISHING

FIrst, Its not a state fishery.  It's open to anyone that feels like coming up here and killing our states quota of fish for a few bucks.

 

The fishery benefits such a small amount of people "see above post"  around 250 give or take.   Hell I hold a Comm Striper permit, have since they first started, NEVER sold one.   (Maybe there will be a buyback ;))

 

The fishery targets resident fish.  The fish set up in large school(s) and they return i.e. are imprinted to that area.  The season starts late and targets those fish and wipes them out of their imprinted area and there are no fish left to return to that spot.  Then the fleet moves to the next largest school.   Look at Nomans, Cuttyhunk, Chatham etc.  Each of those large biomasses was a Commercial playground until it was fished out.  Now none of those spots fish worth a damn and we are on to the CC Bay school since its basically the last large pile of fish in the  state waters.

 

The season is set up to be short.  That further targets the larger biomasses.  BUT basic ECON 101 would show its a piss poor way to manage a PUBLIC RESOURCE.  While i understand a dead fish is a dead fish there are better ways to utilize a resource.  Rather than glut the market and pushing the price to sub $2 a pound the season could and should have been extended.  Less fish, longer time period.   More money per fish.   More money means less fish need to be killed to put the same $$$ in the anglers pocket.

 

 

How to fix it

 

I'm not one to B:tch without offering a solution.  First and most obviously, I'd like to see NO comm fishing and a MUCH higher limit for Recs.  However if there has to be a Comm fishery I have 2 ideas that would benefit those that actually use the fishery for a significant portion of income while helping the fish.

 

Eliminate ALL out of state anglers.  They can fish their Comm season or lobby to get one put in to place in their state.

 

Eliminate all of the dead weight Comm licenses.  There is a precipitous drop in fish caught once you get past the 80-100 anglers that are REAL Commercial fisherman.  Look at the list of sales, find that point and ax everyone below the line. (Myself included with a ZERO sell number)   Now we have an honest idea of how many players are in the game.  

 

Once we have the Recremaercials out of the game we can begin to treat this like a REAL Commercial fishery.  We know the average sold fish is around 18-21# annually.   We know what the real Comm guys on the list make each year.  Simple math can me used to adjust the quota down while allowing them to make their annual income.   

 

Extend the season.   Start it on Jan 1 and run in DAILY with a 3-5 fish limit.  Guys will argue at face value that its not worth going out for 3 or 5 fish.   HOWEVER thats true is you are getting $2 a pound.  But not when the price is significantly higher due to demand.  I know Larsons is doing $3-3.50 a pound for BLUEFISH before Memorial day and up until last week the buy price was $3.   Striper would be DOUBLE that.   So go out in May catch your tog limits and grab 3-5 stripers at $5-7 a pound.  3 times the money means you can get 1/3 of the fish and make the same amount.   Factor in your time and fuel and you come out ahead.  It is a MUCH better use of the resource.   Plus the season would last longer with more daily paychecks so by year end they make more money.   

 

They result of the extended season, takes the pressure off the resident biomass and targets migratory fish as well.  It would also eliminate the massive Cluster at the ramps every Monday and Thurs.

 

OPTION 2

 

Same start as above.   Cut the dead weight, lower the quota proportionally and go to a TAG system.  The 100-250 guys would be given tags with their license.  Again simple math.   18-21# average fish divided into the quota divided by X number of guys =  number of tags given to each guy.   Tags can be used at ANY time.   SOLD, TRADED or TRANSFERED to other duely licensed Comm Anglers.  

 

SMART anglers would play their tags based on when the market was high not when the fishing was easy.  Making more $$$.   It would allow the anglers to sell or transfer tags in the event they were unable to fish (injury, boat issue) hence allowing a more certain income stream since they actually depend on the money to live.

 

 

You see, I actually THINK about this and don't just argue from emotion.  The guys yelling "quota grab and gripers forever" argue from emotion.   When you SERIOUSLY look at the trainwreck that is this fishery you can't honestly say it doesn't need a remake.   We are not all up in arms over Comm Lobster are we?   This is a joke of a fishery as it stands.   A person can buy a permit and suddenly you are a Commercial fisherman?  Maybe I should go buy some wire and a few light switches and become an electrician tomorrow, its gonna be windy and I dont have a charter...... See how stupid that sounds?

 

Bottom line,

Cut the dead weight in the licenses

Adjust the quota down to compensate for the loss of 2000+ fake Comms

Raise the limit for recs to 1@36 or 1@34-36 Slot

Manage the fish FOR THE FISH NOT THE $$$ and lets all enjoy what we are lucky enough to have.

 

Rant over!  

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8 mins ago, Pescador710 said:

P.s. I took a shot at you in my post on page 3 but you did not care to respond... I’ll wait

I chose not to respond because to do so was only going to embarrass you.  But since you asked.  

 

First it sucks you lost your job.  I feel for you.   But it you are a shore bound Comm you are legally allowed 2 fish per  day.  Lets assume you slay giants and you are above the average 18-21# fish sold.   Lets give you a 25# average.  So you get 100# of fish a week if you are not cheating or poaching.  Lets say your fish are AMAZING and you get $4 a pound.   You are getting $1600 a month before expenses.   You could work at McDonalds and make that.   But here is the thing.   YOU DON"T WANT TO.   You would RATHER be fishing.   I'm curious, did you and your family survive on $1600 a month ?  Was the timing of Comm season so perfect that you lost your job just as the season opened and found one a few months later when it closed?  Did you collect unemployment while you were out of work to help you along?   .....Hmmmmmm Did you report your income from striper fishing to the Unemployment people if you did?   So many questions it was hard to respond without making you look like you were lazy or gaming the system for your own enjoyment.   

 

Not pointing fingers of course, but I just want to have all the facts while you are busy not shedding a tear for guys that busted their asses to start a REAL business, spend hard earned money to purchase boats and equipment while you were screwing off at the canal for a few bucks a day instead of getting a real job.   

 

Is that the response you expected?

 

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1 hour ago, Riptide said:

I'll assume that's a shot at me.   So I'll respond.    I do around 50 striper trips a season.   That's around 200 people I take out.  Of those 200 people we kill around 10 or 15 bass on purpose for the YEAR.    My C&R mortality is extremely low, especially on larger fish as our big Lures are all rigged with single hooks.   I have looked at it and we are running around 2-3% MAX.  

 

The fact they had to.put into writing that Comms couldn't gaff shorts speaks volumes about their C&R practices.   

 

I respect the fish and I utilize it to make money.  But being smarter than the average bear, I look to the future.   Read the childrens story about the Golden Goose.   You might learn something.  

 

They could make stripers C&R only ZERO bag limit and my business, along with most light tackle guides and tackle shops would thrive.  As would the stripers themselves.    Everyone but a handful of Comms would do better.   

 

You show me one Commercial fishery that the Comms have not decimated that needed severe restrictions put on it.    

 

I'll show you Tarpon, Bonefish, Permit, Redfish, Sailfish and Marlin for a start that southern states and other countries have made gamefish.   

 

Which ones thrived?   Which creates more money for the community?  Which brings more access for ALL anglers ?

 

Go ahead.   I'll wait.

Dude your the man!  Awesome role model on how a charter company should be operating these days.  I wish all the other charter boats would do the same!  Thank you and keep up the good work! 

Edited by Aaron Barmmer

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58 mins ago, Pescador710 said:

If you think there is something wrong, immoral, or unsustainable about a hook and line fishery that is open twice a week for a couple months a year than you should not be eating any commercially caught wild seafood. And to do so is ignorant, plain and simple.

 

A lot of the guys bitching and moaning here have no problem eating dragger caught fish from seafood sally’s after a fun afternoon of lip ripping fun at the ditch.

I don’t eat any fish.  Commercial striped bass fishing is wack! And so are YOU! 

Edited by Aaron Barmmer

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Riptide

Well sir I have a complete different opinion of you than I previously thought 

But who am I. Doesn’t matter 

Great posts 

Especially C&R zero bag limit  

 

 

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Terry, I largely agree with you as to potential solutions except for the real vs fake commercial guys sentiment. This fishery has always been a part time fishery and largely a shore based fishery at that. With current regulations a shorebased guy, cannot make the money that would satisfy your qualifications.

 

And again that few thousand bucks meant more to me then than 10 grand meant to the boat guy who is looking to finance some tuna wishing trips.

 

Honestly, given the amount of increasing pressure being put on these fish, tarpon-like gamefish status maybe the only way to save these fish.

 

We agree on a lot,Terry, but I and many others are just sick of you talking down to us from your high horse.

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13 mins ago, Pescador710 said:

Terry, I largely agree with you as to potential solutions except for the real vs fake commercial guys sentiment. This fishery has always been a part time fishery and largely a shore based fishery at that. With current regulations a shorebased guy, cannot make the money that would satisfy your qualifications.

 

And again that few thousand bucks meant more to me then than 10 grand meant to the boat guy who is looking to finance some tuna wishing trips.

 

Honestly, given the amount of increasing pressure being put on these fish, tarpon-like gamefish status maybe the only way to save these fish.

 

We agree on a lot,Terry, but I and many others are just sick of you talking down to us from your high horse.

much the same as quahogging, soft-shell clamming and scalloping, all near shore fisheries depending on resources that belong to all of us.

Should we eliminate all part timers ? 

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2 hours ago, Riptide said:

I chose not to respond because to do so was only going to embarrass you.  But since you asked.  

 

First it sucks you lost your job.  I feel for you.   But it you are a shore bound Comm you are legally allowed 2 fish per  day.  Lets assume you slay giants and you are above the average 18-21# fish sold.   Lets give you a 25# average.  So you get 100# of fish a week if you are not cheating or poaching.  Lets say your fish are AMAZING and you get $4 a pound.   You are getting $1600 a month before expenses.   You could work at McDonalds and make that.   But here is the thing.   YOU DON"T WANT TO.   You would RATHER be fishing.   I'm curious, did you and your family survive on $1600 a month ?  Was the timing of Comm season so perfect that you lost your job just as the season opened and found one a few months later when it closed?  Did you collect unemployment while you were out of work to help you along?   .....Hmmmmmm Did you report your income from striper fishing to the Unemployment people if you did?   So many questions it was hard to respond without making you look like you were lazy or gaming the system for your own enjoyment.   

 

Not pointing fingers of course, but I just want to have all the facts while you are busy not shedding a tear for guys that busted their asses to start a REAL business, spend hard earned money to purchase boats and equipment while you were screwing off at the canal for a few bucks a day instead of getting a real job.   

 

Is that the response you expected?

 

Wow you are making a lot of assumptions. You know what they say about that.

 

Actually, I was a fishery observer collecting data on a wide variety of fishing vessels for 3 years of my life because I love and respect the marine environment and wanted to collect good unbiased data that managers can make decisions on. This job is not conducive to raising a family so when it was time I quit to transition into education.

 

I didn’t lose my job so your pity is not needed. I spent a year as a paraprofessional and long term science teacher sub making peanuts. That summer I landed a full time teaching job that started in September. I did NOT take unemployment. I was not in a great position to take a job while only being able to work for two months before starting my new job. And yes I made enough money to support my family because I saved and made sacrifices but that 3 grand made this transition possible without increasing my debt or abusing the social service system.

 

Now I don’t make assumptions about other people’s situations but if I did, I may assume that a LEO looking to get into a full time charter business in retirement may have used paid time off while on the water abusing the tax payer dollars and the system. But I don’t want to make assumptions.

Edited by Pescador710

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Posted (edited) · Report post

37 mins ago, Pescador710 said:

Terry, I largely agree with you as to potential solutions except for the real vs fake commercial guys sentiment. This fishery has always been a part time fishery and largely a shore based fishery at that. With current regulations a shorebased guy, cannot make the money that would satisfy your qualifications.

 

And again that few thousand bucks meant more to me then than 10 grand meant to the boat guy who is looking to finance some tuna wishing trips.

 

Honestly, given the amount of increasing pressure being put on these fish, tarpon-like gamefish status maybe the only way to save these fish.

 

We agree on a lot,Terry, but I and many others are just sick of you talking down to us from your high horse.

 

Well sick or not I worked hard to get where i am and if you see that as a high horse i suggest you work 20 hr days for 20 years and get a high horse yourself.   

 

Yes I did take sick time of a few midnight shifts to rest up from working those 20 hr days.   "ABUSE"  how about EARNED time.   Our union gave up a ton over the years and that time was earned by me.    I dont see it any better or worse than a guy going out boozing and then calling in "sick".     I NEVER chartered on sick leave EVER.  

 

Back on topic.   Buffalo hunting, commercial duck hunting all needed to go away.   Just because it used to be, doesn't mean it still should be.   Let's face it.   The low limits and commercial.pressure nearly wiped out the stripers once.   

 

Now some people want to do it again for selfish reasons.   I utilize a public resource and make money doing so.    No different than a sight seeing tour in the Grand Canyon.   The Comms wanna mine the Grand Canyon because the dirt is worth money.    

 

How does a group of 3500 people 250 or less that are active feel that THEY deserve nearly a million pounds of fish for profit from a public resource??????    The High Horse is under those folks.   

 

Yes Recs kill more fish, but there are literally a million more of them.   The percentage of quota per com is astronomical compared to the per rec angler. 

 

So just because it used to be a certain way and just because you may have made a bad career choice or two doesn't give you or anyone the right to plunder a PUBLIC resource for profit all while causing harm to the resource.   Times change, sell the buffalo gun and get a new job.   In this economy it's not that hard to work if you actually want to.   

 

Giddy up, horsey.  

Edited by Riptide

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2 hours ago, Pescador710 said:

If you think there is something wrong, immoral, or unsustainable about a hook and line fishery that is open twice a week for a couple months a year than you should not be eating any commercially caught wild seafood. And to do so is ignorant, plain and simple.

 

A lot of the guys bitching and moaning here have no problem eating dragger caught fish from seafood sally’s after a fun afternoon of lip ripping fun at the ditch.

Commercial draggers do tons of damage to the ocean as well but comparing bottom fish like haddock, pollock and flounder to striped bass is crazy. Stripers bring much more value to the State of MA than just a food source. People travel to MA from all over the country to fish for stripers and spend money while they are here. How many people are traveling here to catch a few Haddock?

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Between the way they mismanage the beach with that B S plover crap and the seals and now a 12 1/2 % tax on short term rental it won’t be long before it’s ALL GONE ! NO FISH. NO TOURISTS. Only filthy rich d bags

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32 mins ago, Kones1 said:

Between the way they mismanage the beach with that B S plover crap and the seals and now a 12 1/2 % tax on short term rental it won’t be long before it’s ALL GONE ! NO FISH. NO TOURISTS. Only filthy rich d bags

wow, that certainly went down a rabbit hole......:eek:

 

 

 

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