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Consulting with my fellow centrists

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BrianBM

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24 mins ago, BrianBM said:

Except as regards to citizenship. The Constitution makes you a citizen if you're born here, period. The right wing is intent on finding a way to torture that into saying "only if your parents were legally admitted to this country."  

 

Except as regards the expenditure of money. The Constitution makes the House of Representatives the sole appropriator of money.  The White House says no, i can redirect money as I want, to build the wall. 

 

These come to mind immediately, I may come back. 

Having parents that didnt sneak in was probably assumed.   Who knew the future would bring a political party that hated their own country so much  that they would encourage foreigners to invade the border illegally in the dead of night.

 

Yet here we are.  Pretty sad

Edited by JimG
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1 min ago, saltydawg said:

Yeah, if you spend time around young people, it’s very clear

I agree,

I thought we were talking about Government, not people,

 

the PEOPLE of this country are the same, they younger adults are more progressive,

but between the Senate and the EC the system is rigged for the GOP,

and actual policy has been moving to the right, even if most people disagree with what is being done.

Eggy 10-13

LAA 7-14

50-50 2-15

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1 min ago, The Dude said:

What about actual policy and actions? What's moved to the right?

Maybe I typed poorly.  The vitriol has increased in right wing rhetoric.  policy wise, little has changed nor will it.   Ever increasingly difficult to reach policy change consensus with so much division and so few "moderates" (or "centrists").  Without compromise, we will remain at a standstill. 

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2 mins ago, The Dude said:

To the right? To me, there's been a constant move to the left. 

Agreed dude.  I am not sure how one could view things as having moved to the right, but it all depends on where you're sitting I suppose.  If you're among folks that have moved to the right, that may be what would cause you to believe that things have moved to the right?

 

This sounds like a thread-worthy topic on it's own perhaps?

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42 mins ago, KnewBee said:

 

 

"President BarackObama's vacation is costing taxpayers millions of dollars----Unbelievable!" 2012

 

"The Obama's Spain vacation cost taxpayers over $476K [link removed] They love to spend money"  2012

 

“I would rarely leave the White House because there’s so much work to be done,”  Trump 2015

 

"A new report from the Government Accountability Office says four such trips early on in Trump's presidency cost taxpayers $13.6 million, or some $3.4 million each. That is far higher than the estimates of Trump's travel costs early in his presidency, which were pegged at about $1 million per trip.

 

 

There is no doubt in my mind Trump is costing way more than Obama did. No Country is even close to us on travel spending like this, or even on an official visit/travel. Big time waste.

Edited by TimS
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5 mins ago, BLT said:

     Ok, Trump is a dolt IMO, but some of your items are misleading a little bit. Won't argue the deficit issue, they both are to blame there.

     The golf outing issue....most web sites count the times he went to one of his C.Clubs as an outing, even if he didn't play a round. Several sites have mentioned this. Numbers I saw were pretty close IF you take this into account.

     Executive actions.....good for him, he signed E.A.'s to get rid of a lot of Obama era regulations/executive actions. Getting items passed in congress is next to impossible anymore. Unless you hold a "super" majority in the Senate, good luck with all the partisan B.S. that goes on.

     I don't think it's fine he doesn't show school records. What is he hiding?

Honorably said. 

 

I would think better of George W. Bush if his deficit had been incurred to better support the war he started, instead of by cutting taxes for his preferred high-end demographic. If you send people to war, justified or not, your first financial obligation is to the people in the field.  In similar fashion, I consider Obama's deficit a necessary evil (so did Trump, at the time). What Trump is doing now is insane. 

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2 mins ago, fish'nmagician said:

 

and actual policy has been moving to the right, even if most people disagree with what is being done.

Are you talking about any specific policies that have moved to the right, or are you talking in general terms?  If so, can you list any?

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2 mins ago, BrianBM said:

How we moved to the right is a whole 'nother topic.  I will leave that for another thread. Them as wants to have at it here, help yourself. 

ok,

but I think the right wing stance on illegal immigrants and trade with china should make the flip flop list.

Eggy 10-13

LAA 7-14

50-50 2-15

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37 mins ago, BrianBM said:

It occurs to me that I've achieved leftist status here simply by sitting still, while the rest of the country lurched rightward.

 

I am not worried that Obama is tunneling towards my house, waiting to strike. That's leftist. The sight of latinos in the street does not unsettle me. The presence of a mosque within a mile of my house leaves me undisturbed, as does the opening of a second halal grocer in Coram. I do believe in free trade, following that famous Communist Adam Smith. I like moderation in speech and caution in judgment, both anathema to Trump supporters. I don't believe at all in the paramount need to concentrate wealth in fewer and fewer hands, corporate or individual, which has defined the Republican Party since Ronald Reagan (in this regard, President Trump absolutely fits in the Republican mainstream). 

 

Two particular things separate me widely from most posters here, most posters being Trumpian. First, I don't take seriously the endless rounds of conspiracy theories that are dear to the hearts of so many. I don't think they're worthy of serious attention from a sober adult. Second, I despise the degree of adulation that Trump demands and most here provide. There is no room in the GOP for anything but total agreement and total devotion. Whether it be Senator Romney or Rep. Amash, to be critical is to be a traitor. Call it the "leadership principle," following on the German original, the "Fuhrerprinzip." These attitudes are what make me such a leftist, I guess .

 

You mischaracterize my opening post. I have not listed "all the failings of Trump."  I have not listed any failings whatsoever. I am addressing the endless hypocrisy of Republicans who are now tolerant, indifferent, or even enthusiastic about the things that had them hysterical with (professed) rage when Obama did them.

 

Perhaps I am doing you, at least, an injustice.  My OP listed three things that are fine, now that Trump is doing them, but were destroying America when Obama did them.

 

1.  Deficits without limit, especially in a time of economic growth.

2.  Golfing.  Obama's time on the golf course was unspeakable. Trump's golfing, which already exceeds the time Obama spent there in two terms, is ... fine.

3.  School records. Awful when Obama didn't share them. It's fine, however, that Trump threatens any school or testing service that releases his records. 

 

Jay Dog contributed a fourth good point.

4.  Reliance on executive action, rather than the legislative process.

 

You may have been critical of Trump's tax-cut driven monster deficits. I have missed that. Perhaps you have remarked that the shrieking about Obama's time golfing was silly; perhaps you've been appalled by the amount of taxpayer money spent on Trump's golf travels. I have missed that, too.  If you have had a comment about the President's threats to his schools, I didn't see  it.  And about his preference for executive orders, what of that?

 

Feel free to point out any posts you've made on these things. 

 

 

I agree with the lack of attention to the deficit and debt.

 

Not sure about your belief in free trade. 

 

Is Trumps use of executive action illegal? Unprecedented?

 

I don't care about golfing, school records or citizenship. Go back and you will not find any posts by me disparaging Obama. I find the comments about his wife distasteful.

 

 

I love when we make way past the breakwater at first light and head out, there's nothing better, the whole rest of the world just melts away for me.

(*edited - member formerly known as 'windknot')

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1 min ago, fish'nmagician said:

most rational people know that Republicans support this, so long as they get their way.

I guess you're excluding government takeover of health care.  Republicans don't want this like the big government libs do!

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43 mins ago, The Dude said:

Seriously, how in the world did the country lurch rightward? 

Because our government has turned their backs on many of its disenfranchised citizenry.

 

Is it really that baffling to you?

I love when we make way past the breakwater at first light and head out, there's nothing better, the whole rest of the world just melts away for me.

(*edited - member formerly known as 'windknot')

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