kakaryan

Conventional surf reel needs help

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30 posts in this topic

3 hours ago, Birdsnester said:

Hi they come stock with two pin brake blocks I upgraded to 6 pin.  Easy to change and adds tons more control.  I’d prefer more mag control however but the brakes are a simple upgrade

Check at 5:10 into the following video. A gentleman has the opposing point of view.

 

There are a couple of points.

You will not lose the brake blocks.

The reel will be more docile due to increased wind resistance

 

 

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7 hours ago, Don B said:

Check at 5:10 into the following video. A gentleman has the opposing point of view.

 

There are a couple of points.

You will not lose the brake blocks.

The reel will be more docile due to increased wind resistance

 

 

Yep I’ve seen John’s videos.  He is a well known distance caster from way back.  John uses his thumb to help control the line, maybe not so much on the casting court but for fishing purposes.  So he typically advocates for less mag and Centrifugal brakes.  Tommy Farmer on the other hand, has won distance casting championships and he advocates no thumb control, definitely not on the casting court and if possible not for fishing either.  For casting on a field with 6 oz bank sinker for instance I can cast  well over 200 yards.  Very little mag and no Centrifugal brake.  But with a 6 oz Sputnik and a chunk into a head wind I need the extra help.  If I am using my Akios I might have the mag full on and the brakes full on if there is a stiff head wind.  If there is a stiff tail wind I might have on or two brake blocks in and mag on half or less.  It’s nice to have the control when you need it.  But like I mentioned before I’d prefer more mag control than Centrifugal.  Centrifugal control is more of a pain to adjust throughout the day but it was a snap to install.  It’s a $6 part and a 5 min install 

Edited by Birdsnester

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8 hours ago, Birdsnester said:

Yep I’ve seen John’s videos.  He is a well known distance caster from way back.  John uses his thumb to help control the line, maybe not so much on the casting court but for fishing purposes.  So he typically advocates for less mag and Centrifugal brakes.  Tommy Farmer on the other hand, has won distance casting championships and he advocates no thumb control, definitely not on the casting court and if possible not for fishing either.  For casting on a field with 6 oz bank sinker for instance I can cast  well over 200 yards.  Very little mag and no Centrifugal brake.  But with a 6 oz Sputnik and a chunk into a head wind I need the extra help.  If I am using my Akios I might have the mag full on and the brakes full on if there is a stiff head wind.  If there is a stiff tail wind I might have on or two brake blocks in and mag on half or less.  It’s nice to have the control when you need it.  But like I mentioned before I’d prefer more mag control than Centrifugal.  Centrifugal control is more of a pain to adjust throughout the day but it was a snap to install.  It’s a $6 part and a 5 min install 

I learned to cast using John Holden's book, a Lamiglas L6M, and a Penn wide 4/0 with 60# line. In my opinion, the ability to use thumb control is an asset. Here's an example: I was practicing casting a Penn GS 555 and decided to install a single brake block. 8 to10 yards of casting distance was lost. After installing a second brake block, a solid 10 yards of casting distance was lost. Both brake blocks were then removed (forever).

 

Perhaps we can help a little with the mag system. I will assume it is the standard 4 magnet carriage and a control knob with detents for small position changes.  I have found (only checked this one time) that the 4 magnets will have the greatest range of control if they are seated with their polarities in the same direction.  Also, you may want to slip additional magnets under the magnet carrier. You will need to verify the clearance when the magnet carrier is adjusted to the out position.

Magnets are readily available from Apex Magnets. Look under Discs-Small. You will probably want either 1 or 2 mm thick disc magnets.

 

"For casting on a field with 6 oz bank sinker for instance I can cast  well over 200 yards. "

First: Congratulations on great casting!

One thing I will mention is the use of bank sinkers. I had one 6 ounce and one 8 ounce bank sinker break apart at the end of the cast. The break was at an angle across the body of the sinker. Luckily I was fishing and the part went out to sea. It's interesting stopping a large spool when the sinker goes from 8 ounces to about 3 ounces.  I now limit my use on bank sinkers to fishing.

 

 

 

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38 mins ago, Don B said:

I learned to cast using John Holden's book, a Lamiglas L6M, and a Penn wide 4/0 with 60# line. In my opinion, the ability to use thumb control is an asset. Here's an example: I was practicing casting a Penn GS 555 and decided to install a single brake block. 8 to10 yards of casting distance was lost. After installing a second brake block, a solid 10 yards of casting distance was lost. Both brake blocks were then removed (forever).

 

Perhaps we can help a little with the mag system. I will assume it is the standard 4 magnet carriage and a control knob with detents for small position changes.  I have found (only checked this one time) that the 4 magnets will have the greatest range of control if they are seated with their polarities in the same direction.  Also, you may want to slip additional magnets under the magnet carrier. You will need to verify the clearance when the magnet carrier is adjusted to the out position.

Magnets are readily available from Apex Magnets. Look under Discs-Small. You will probably want either 1 or 2 mm thick disc magnets.

 

"For casting on a field with 6 oz bank sinker for instance I can cast  well over 200 yards. "

First: Congratulations on great casting!

One thing I will mention is the use of bank sinkers. I had one 6 ounce and one 8 ounce bank sinker break apart at the end of the cast. The break was at an angle across the body of the sinker. Luckily I was fishing and the part went out to sea. It's interesting stopping a large spool when the sinker goes from 8 ounces to about 3 ounces.  I now limit my use on bank sinkers to fishing.

 

 

 

A bank sinker broke apart?  Wowzers I’ve never seen that before.  I guess my thought would be this.  And this is just my personal feeling on this.  If I had to trust my physical ability or science I would trust science.  If I were trying to calculate something complex I would trust the calculating ability of a computer over my brain.  That being said man if you can cast a long distance constantly using you talent, well I am impressed!  I can’t do it and would spend my fishing days picking out birds nests.  LoL see why I chose my screen name :)  I do use my thumb btw but as an aid in difficult wind conditions.  Using as the sole means of control would give me fits.  It really neat to see how others manage this.  Thanks for the input

 

ED2077C7-8922-4E0A-BA9C-AFE91CF457A9.png

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44 mins ago, Don B said:

I learned to cast using John Holden's book, a Lamiglas L6M, and a Penn wide 4/0 with 60# line. In my opinion, the ability to use thumb control is an asset. Here's an example: I was practicing casting a Penn GS 555 and decided to install a single brake block. 8 to10 yards of casting distance was lost. After installing a second brake block, a solid 10 yards of casting distance was lost. Both brake blocks were then removed (forever).

 

Perhaps we can help a little with the mag system. I will assume it is the standard 4 magnet carriage and a control knob with detents for small position changes.  I have found (only checked this one time) that the 4 magnets will have the greatest range of control if they are seated with their polarities in the same direction.  Also, you may want to slip additional magnets under the magnet carrier. You will need to verify the clearance when the magnet carrier is adjusted to the out position.

Magnets are readily available from Apex Magnets. Look under Discs-Small. You will probably want either 1 or 2 mm thick disc magnets.

 

"For casting on a field with 6 oz bank sinker for instance I can cast  well over 200 yards. "

First: Congratulations on great casting!

One thing I will mention is the use of bank sinkers. I had one 6 ounce and one 8 ounce bank sinker break apart at the end of the cast. The break was at an angle across the body of the sinker. Luckily I was fishing and the part went out to sea. It's interesting stopping a large spool when the sinker goes from 8 ounces to about 3 ounces.  I now limit my use on bank sinkers to fishing.

 

 

 

Are you in Hawai'i?  That's a common setup for casting for GT.  

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The white line through the bank sinker indicates how it broke apart. I am assuming there was a cold fracture in the lead when it was poured. There was no indication of a problem when the sinker was purchased.

 

bank_sinker.jpg.f8c8f8a046c6bf1c111f244c06671522.jpg

 

Claw_Sinker.jpg.49f04363ca5d4c09bec4ce179fca7a98.jpg

 

If you are in the field, a claw sinker may be an alternative to a tournament sinker. The important issue is that the wire runs the full length of the sinker.Cut off the claws to about 1/2 inch, bend them in and you will be set to cast with reasonable safety.  Please do not forget to attach a clip from your shockleader to the sinker.

 

 

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Never trust computers. It's just input output as predetermined.

 

" I do use my thumb btw but as an aid in difficult wind conditions.  Using as the sole means of control would give me fits.  It really neat to see how others manage this. "

 

Well, in the old Penn Senator wide 6/0 reels it was:

Line size - usually 80 #

Line type - low memory, soft, Maxima

Amount of line on the reel

Oil viscosity - often heavy weight motor oil or transmission lube (90 wt)

After releasing the spool, the thumb moves immediately to the left to within 1/4" of the spool. You then gently thumb the side of the spool. If you are using a Newell reel, your technique will be to apply pressure to the spool with your thumb nail. After a few casts with a Newell, your thumb nail will be flat on one side.

 

And Brian, Yes I do call Hawaii my home ;)

 

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I am interested to see what other reels will get some votes.

I mostly use Abu Mag Elite 5/6500:heart: (with bit of upgrades) as I only throw plugs on the surf.

Though always keep a eye on what other reels might offer more, specially with drag and retrieve speed.

Since I am plugging level wind makes life easier so recently tried Daiwa Lexa which provided good improvements on both drag and retrieval speed. One major bummer was the casting distance though.

I didn't know that this reel dis-engages the level wind (cheater:mad:) on cast, creating issues with distance and (possibly) line break off. I still use it time to time when water condition calls for faster retrieval speed but am making sure that tiny line guide hole is on the middle of the spool before every cast. Distance is still only about 80-85% of my Abu can do though.

I think while Avet might be a good boat reel but not too sure on surf casting use, even with magged one.

 

BTW, glad to see you still hanging here Don. Been a while. Nevada 13 is still in great shape.:wave:

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The issue is the main gear.  Both the Abu and the Akios 5x & 6x series have the same main gear.  Nothing wrong with it, depending on what you are fishing for.  The Daiwa Saltist and the Penn have much larger main gears, I would guess about 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 times the diameter and thickness of the Abu or Akios.

I am rarely fishing for fish over 20lbs. The majority of my fishing is for weakfish, whiting, pompano, small redfish, and fresh water fish up to pike size.  Fish I can toss in a cooler and eat.  The reason I use the Abu and not the Daiwa is that my Abu rocket casts very far and is extremely easy to maintain.  The maintenance of the saltist was a struggle at times. 

If I was going after a fish with some real muscle, I would chose either the Daiwa or Penn.

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16 hours ago, Don B said:

Never trust computers. It's just input output as predetermined.

 

" I do use my thumb btw but as an aid in difficult wind conditions.  Using as the sole means of control would give me fits.  It really neat to see how others manage this. "

 

Well, in the old Penn Senator wide 6/0 reels it was:

Line size - usually 80 #

Line type - low memory, soft, Maxima

Amount of line on the reel

Oil viscosity - often heavy weight motor oil or transmission lube (90 wt)

After releasing the spool, the thumb moves immediately to the left to within 1/4" of the spool. You then gently thumb the side of the spool. If you are using a Newell reel, your technique will be to apply pressure to the spool with your thumb nail. After a few casts with a Newell, your thumb nail will be flat on one side.

 

And Brian, Yes I do call Hawaii my home ;)

 

Well now I’m just jealous!!!  You live in paradise.  

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5 hours ago, fishhappy said:

The issue is the main gear.  Both the Abu and the Akios 5x & 6x series have the same main gear.  Nothing wrong with it, depending on what you are fishing for.  The Daiwa Saltist and the Penn have much larger main gears, I would guess about 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 times the diameter and thickness of the Abu or Akios.

I am rarely fishing for fish over 20lbs. The majority of my fishing is for weakfish, whiting, pompano, small redfish, and fresh water fish up to pike size.  Fish I can toss in a cooler and eat.  The reason I use the Abu and not the Daiwa is that my Abu rocket casts very far and is extremely easy to maintain.  The maintenance of the saltist was a struggle at times. 

If I was going after a fish with some real muscle, I would chose either the Daiwa or Penn.

I agree with you on the maintenance of Abu’s. Once you take them apart a few times it’s a breeze 

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OK. I have limited the options down to the ABU 6500i TSR, Akios Shuttle 656, and Seigler SM. (crossed out the centri brake only Saltiga/Saltist or aftermarket magged option. Maybe next time if I need a more boat oriented reel).

 

The ABU and Akios are probably very similar. Only deciding between colours, and sliding mag or knobby mag. 

 

I tried to contact Akios and Seigler, on Facebook messages and also emails. While Seigler have answered me, Akios have not (messages read, and there have been a week). Now I am a bit worried about their customer service in case I need it in the future. Anyone have contacted them and get replied successfully ? I was just asking about the custom colours they do, and if the Shuttle could be upgraded to 6.3:1 gear like the Tourno......

 

Seigler, so far so good. No very quick in response but they did reply. 

 

Question. I read that the Seigler SM is designed as a surf reel. And I read rumors (from someone who haven't used it) saying that the frame might not be strong enough as lacking of the support bars (red part) which other conventional reels do have. But I also saw photos of owners catching big reds, GT, and sharks which seems no problem. Would it be OK to use it also as a boat reel? (I think the reel itself wouldn't know if it's on a beach or a boat) lol.

 

Another question, the handle of the SM is not counterbalanced. Would it have problems like spinning and engaging the gear accidentally during the cast? Is there upgrade counterbalanced handle for the SM? Like is it compatible with other brands such as maybe Daiwa or Abu handles?

 

Cheers.

 

 

 

20190621_170905.jpg

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I have all three.  If you are the least bit handy you really don’t need customer service for the Akios or Abu.  Unless you are talking about a warranty issue.  They are both so similar and some parts exchange between them.  Both really nice reels.  The Seigler blows them away IMO.  Far superior drag, massive main gear and very strong.  I’ve never heard anyone complain that the reel did not hold up.  

 

That being said and for me me at least, the mag is undersized. I like to tune the reel so that on normal days (not too gusty, wind in my face) I don’t need to thumb it.  So I had to epoxy in extra mags.  Now it’s perfect.  No loss in distance either.  630’ with 6 oz lead.  Not six and bait!  Just the lead.  Not too bad.  

 

The bug advantage for the seigler is the lifetime warranty, the massive main gear and it’s massive drag.  There is no comparison IMO.  

 

If if you are flounder fishing or smaller predatory fish, the Abu /Akios is fine.  For bigger fish the Seigler rules the conventional surf reel world.

 

just look at the size of that main gear!

5BC0E8F3-C1F4-446D-BA31-DBC31A455004.jpeg

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4 hours ago, kakaryan said:

Question. I read that the Seigler SM is designed as a surf reel. And I read rumors (from someone who haven't used it) saying that the frame might not be strong enough as lacking of the support bars

 

The SM was designed for surfcasting. It would be fine for offshore use also. I prefer to use other reels for offshore only because the mag feel awkward to me when palming the reel all day while fishing on a boat. Other models are more comfortable.

 

3 hours ago, Birdsnester said:

 If you are the least bit handy you really don’t need customer service for the Akios or Abu.

 

No customer service to break down an SM. It’s a piece of cake.

 

3 hours ago, Birdsnester said:

The Seigler blows them away IMO.  Far superior drag, massive main gear and very strong.

 

I do not own Akios, but I have many Abu’s which are similar. Competent reels for sure, but they feel like toys compared to an SM.

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