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 Suave,

 

FWIW I secure the eyes with Danville’s 210 flat waxed thread. With brass eyes I can crank down with thread pressure. Must admit to using a lot of turns and I take thread underneath for final tighten up.  I do put down thread on the hook shank first and a bump to butt the eyes up to. After that a good dunking in super glue. I don’t let dry rock hard just dry enough that I can add the wings. Mostly this locks them firmly in place. Occasionally a good fight with a fish can find them spinning around or if they get smacked against a rock or something. I just realign them.  Clousers are so quick to tye that I see them as disposable.  Ones tied with Super Hair just gnarl up after a few fish or a lot of casts. If the fishing is great and say half a dozen Clousers get trashed then happy days. I tye way too many of them for the Cape but in other Striper abodes. I hardly use them. Pretty crude flies. If I never fished another one it would be no big deal for me. Others  really love em.

Mike

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Posted (edited)

3 hours ago, Mike Oliver said:

 Suave,

 

. I hardly use them. Pretty crude flies. If I never fished another one it would be no big deal for me. Others  really love em.

Mike

Mike: I have a box full (around 100 flies) of Clouser Deep Minnows and Half and Halfs for stripers and .... very seldom fish them mainly  because, like you, I don't like to cast them.  I discovered them 30 years ago when I was fishing for smallies and had a lot of success with them for that species. But come to think of it , I was then using them mostly as trolling flies.

 

And I tie quite a lot of them for friends who fish them successfully for stripers.

 

And, sorry, but I think they are a cleverly designed fly: simple to tie but damn effective for a myriad of species.

 

So I'll be adding a few dozens of those Brunette Talonneuse-Hookers to my boxes for next year. With the bead chain eyes, they cast as easily as any other wet fly of the same size.

 

Edited by Suave
Typos

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Posted (edited)

Today was a great day to be fly caster at the Jersey Shore. I was targeting fluke while enjoying the madness of the Fat Albert fans!

None of those speedsters in range, though epoxy missiles were being launched nonstop.  I did hook over twenty flat ones on the olive over white clouser with a white hackle feather, on a 3-5-7 sink line.

I'm trying to figure out how to tie the INBETWEENER.

What kind of eyes are used to build it??

Edited by yarddog59

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 Sauve

 

I agree the Clouser is a clever if for me a crude fly. No doubting it’s effectiveness for a lot of species. I guess I started to get a bit jaded with it due to the seemingly over dependence of it in Cape Cod.

With 5/32 eyes they can be cast pretty well .

 In a place I fished this summer it was by a very long way the worst fly in my box. I have opaque and translucent versions made no difference they  failed.  My best fly was the Deceiver tied extremely full and a pretty small slim streamer.  But I am not going to ignore the Brunette fly based on your success. Maybe I can turn the tables on Geoff with this fly. But the very best fly of the trip and it out fished the Deceiver by 6 to 1 was the Game Changer.

 

mike

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@adam42, fluke are the most predictable daytime target during summer in NJ.  I always hope to find blues or stripers, and pelagics which are even less likely, but most most of the time, I specifically target fluke (weighted flies, slow retrieve) knowing they're likely around and will provide good action (and possibly nice table fare as a bonus).  I use a floater with a flouro leader and it works fine, and lets me switch up quickly if blues come by (just need to start stripping quickly rather than the slow strip/pause I use for fluke).  Lots of fun....

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The bigger fluke are now targeting the snappers that are chasing the spearing in the trough. I can catch all the 16- 20 inch fluke on a clouser, silverside streamer or surf candy tied with olive over white with a shiny lateral line.

Im thinking maybe a deceiver, BT deceiver or a hollow fly tied with a black tail to imitate a snapper.

Thoughts anyone?

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Making sure I won't run out of these next year. A "gathering" of CaryGreene's Brunette Électrique Talonneuse Clousers or, in short, Brunette Hookers (if you wonder why, just Google "talonneuse English translation").

20220922_131431.jpg.10623eac7e6c9c4e2d0369dc716eefea.jpg

 

For a closer look.

20220922_143207.jpg.ad7f2282d857e70a2b509aee887823ca.jpg

 

 

On Mustad C70S #1 hooks. About 3" long. Tied like the one I had success with in the Gaspé a couple of weeks ago i.e. with certain variations tonCG's dressing. As I don't have any Comes Alive flash material, I used pearl Hedron Lateral Scale under the brown bucktail or, on a few (to try next year), pearl Veniard Krinkle Mirror Flash. Also did a few with black bead chain eyes as I like the look with these. 

Also I used 6/0 Uni thread to tie these and ended up with bigger heads than I like. On the next ones, I'll use clear mono thread as CG does.

 

And finally (full disclosure) I realized after tying these that I didn't tie the material that goes under the shank and becomes the back of the baitfish pattern (Lateral Scale and brown bucktail with a bit of Lime Green Angel Hair mixed in) as CG does: on mine this material is tied only in front of the eyes whereas, from the pictures posted, CG ties it down both in front and behind the eyes. So his Hookers and mine end up with different profiles, at least when they are dry (CG's look slimmer). Anyway as Drew C. often says on this, it didn't seem to make a difference to the fish, at least this year!

And now on to Olive-topped Hookers and a few of CG's silverside Half and Half. 

Edited by Suave
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On 9/15/2022 at 1:12 PM, Suave said:

CG: in a previous post (August 18), you wrote that the type of thread one uses can help keep Clouser eyes in place quite nicely. You posted a Clouser tied with Clear Mono (.004) and mentioned that this thread has a bit of stretch to it and, as tension is applied, one is able "to lock the material and eyes in place pretty securely". And a bit further you opined that flat waxed monocord thread "would be the best thread for locking eyes down".

 

I've always used  6/0 thread  (now Uni) to secure Clouser eyes to a hook and that's what I did with the 4 Brunette Hookers I referred to in my previous posts. And, for the first  time I can recall, I had the problem of rotating eyes on one of these, the one I had probably 18 of the 20 (final score; my last three outings had poor results) stripers I had on  Hookers during this trip (this pattern still ended up as the most productive on this trip). Mind you those Hookers were tied in haste on the day before our departure and I didn't do what I normally do with these that is letting the glue I put on the bindings of the eyes dry overnight before tying the rest of the fly.

 

Yesterday I sat down to to tie bead chain eyes on a dozen hooks that will become Brunettes Talonneuses-Hookers. And I decided to experiment so I tied the eyes with Mono (.004) for six of them and with 6/0 thread for the other six. And I followed the same tying procedure for all of them. So, the last thing I do on each after tying off and letting the glue dry overnight is making sure that the eyes are lined up square on top of the shank. They often need adjusting by turning the eyes slightly to one side or the other.

 

What I noticed in all cases I had to do an adjustment is that it took quite a bit more pressure on my part to turn the eyes tied with mono than it did for those tied with 6/0 thread. Not very scientific I know but it's enough to convince me to use only mono from now on to tie any barbell eyes (I have no flat waxed monocord to experiment with and compare).

 

 

 

  

Hi Suave,

 

One secret to locking down eyes is tension, the other is your winding pattern. Single figure-8 wraps to start (2 or 3 tops), then a dab of Instacure if desired, then double figure-8 wraps, stay on one side twice - then move the other side twice. Then, move to triple and even quadurple figure-8 wraps. 

 

You should get to a point where you're cranking hard on the .004" mono, hard enough to "almost" break it. It will pretty much grip the eyes into a tightly locked position and you should be good to go. 

 

Note our readers: If this isn't happening for you, increase thread tension to dangerously high levels. Make sure to wrap your "multiple" figure-8 warps three or four very tight turns on one side, then go to the other side, then a few in front and back. Try to build a 30-degree ramp behind the eyes and in front of the eyes as you go along. The ramp provides two right angles to sandwich the multiple figure-8 wraps. 

 

When making your figure-8 wraps, the eyes will pull slightly to the side you are working on. This is good. It means your tension is solid. When you move to the opposide side and repeat, the eyes should shift back to "T" position. If they don't, wrap harder and take a few extra turns, they will lock into place if you do that as you go. 

 

Also of note: Try not to leave only a short space between the eye bar and the hook eye. Back it up slightly. 1/8" is sometimes too close on say 1/0 hooks or larger. Give the nose a little room so you can lay in all the Bucktail "butt-ends", which are bulkier towards the nose than they are the tail because you're locking in the base of these fibers and that's where the diameter is thickest once "chopped to length." 

 

Lastly, be sure to measure by holding the fibers along the shank BEFORE you cut them to length. Never tie the fiber in AND THEN snip it. That's going to give you ugly results. Snip your clump to length BEFORE even attempting to tie it in. This may seem counter-intuitive, but it's not. When you get good at this the fly just jumps off your vice and is ready to fish. 

 

After you've got your eyes locked in, lay in your white bucktail and move forward gently to the nose of the fly, then wrap backwards towards the bend with double the pressure, but still refraining from max pressure. Now adjust with fingers to ensure topping is on the top and coming off the far side of the fly. Now begin double figure-8's and tripple/quadruple figure-8's with vastly more pressure. This locks down the materials and the eyes. It's also best to take a few wraps BEHIND the eyes, but with a bit-gentler tension. This keeps the pattern from fouling when cast. 

 

Bead Chain can be sourced on Google from Ball Chain manufacturing, just make sure to get "Stainless Steel" chain so your eyes don't rust or cause what is known as Galvanic corrosion (also called ' dissimilar metal corrosion' or wrongly 'electrolysis'), which refers refers to corrosion damage induced when two dissimilar materials are coupled in a corrosive electrolyte.

 

Galvanic Corrosion will occur when two (or more) dissimilar metals are brought into electrical contact under water. When a galvanic couple forms, one of the metals in the couple becomes the anode and corrodes faster than it would all by itself, while the other becomes the cathode and corrodes slower than it would alone. 

 

Instead, you'd like to use similar metals (eyes and hooks), even though a tread base technically separates your eyes from ever truly coming in contact with the hook shank. 

 

Try wrapping a shank with flat-waxed Danvilles Nylon and then whip finishing. Makes a great base. Then, go to the .004" Mono. This "pre-tying" step creates a nice platform for the Insta-Cure and the eyes to lay on. Mono is pretty hard and it's also round, so it makes for a mch worse thread base. That said, it's see through so you get a much more attracive "Head" of your pattern because it will allow your white belly to show and your topping comes through as well. 

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On 9/15/2022 at 9:45 PM, yarddog59 said:

Today was a great day to be fly caster at the Jersey Shore. I was targeting fluke while enjoying the madness of the Fat Albert fans!

None of those speedsters in range, though epoxy missiles were being launched nonstop.  I did hook over twenty flat ones on the olive over white clouser with a white hackle feather, on a 3-5-7 sink line.

I'm trying to figure out how to tie the INBETWEENER.

What kind of eyes are used to build it??

Those are Living Image "ICE" colored press on eyes, use a tiny dab of insta cure (apply with a bodkin needle, dip it into the applicator eye and ever so slightly moisten it). Then, get your eye in place and wait 30 seconds for the eye to set. Super Glue sets too quickly (I find), where as the Insta Cure will give you a moment to re-position the eye to exactly where you want it to be). 

 

The fly is made with DNA Fiber (pearl) and you can use Flashabou over Angel hair to top. Silver or Pearl Bill's Body Braid and clear mono .004 are needed to achieve the translucent belly. I use Body Braid like it's going out of style in a week (meaning, I use it a lot). 

 

The body can be made with 30 min epoxy or, if you make many in one sitting, and you have a wheel that you can leave on for 3+ hours, try using my favorite non-yellowing UV-resistant clear coat by Alumilite, it's called Amazing Clear Cast Plus. You can find it on sale on the internet for under $30 usually and it's enough to last a very long time. 

 

632cc32502a2d_Screenshot2022-09-224_18_16PM.png.8a6408d75948f5e2a4c679b15da9aae0.png

 

If you have a heat-gun (NOT a blow dryer), hit all the flies on the wheel breifly as the wheel spins. This eliminates any air bubbles. This material is water thin and literally bullet proof. 

 

On plugs or lures or larger patterns, or Crease Flies..etc, I'll come back an hour into the drying phase and sometimes re-apply the Clear Cast Plus. Epoxy like this will chemically bond BEFORE it dires. Foret trying to sand dried epoxy and then giving it a second coat, the epoxy won't bond. Second and third coats MUST be done while the material is tackey, but not yet dry. I find 1 hour to 1 1/2 hours is about right for this particular resin system. 

 

Results are a thousand times better looking than the UV lamp goop that is over-priced and too goopy/thick. 

 

If you prefer to just use 30-min epoxy because you want to save time and only make a dozen or so flies, DO hit the epoxy with the Heat-Gun once all "noses" are coated. Aslo, DO warm the expoxy to the appropriate temp BEFORE applying the fly. Each epoxy has a temp it likes to be warmed at - it varies mostly by what "minute" epoxy you're working with. Hair Dryers are WAY too hot. You want your epoxy to be 90 degrees appx for 5-min and 100 to 110 for most 30-min resins. A heat table or epoxy warmer is a very good and very handy way to keep your epoxy at the right temp when working with it. 

 

NEVER store your epoxy below 70 degrees f. You want it stored at basically room temperature. Then, When you first sit down to tie, think about turining the warmer on and getting it up to temp. The ADVANTAGE of warming the epoxy is that it becomes almost the consistency of water. You can create glass-like smooth top-coats this way, with regular old epoxy. 

 

Clear Cast Plus doesn't really need to be warmed, but I always run 100 degrees when working with it. Call mee kooky! LOL

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On 2022-09-22 at 4:07 PM, CaryGreene said:




 

 

 

Bead Chain can be sourced on Google from Ball Chain manufacturing, just make sure to get "Stainless Steel" chain so your eyes don't rust or cause what is known as Galvanic corrosion (also called ' dissimilar metal corrosion' or wrongly 'electrolysis'), which refers refers to corrosion damage induced when two dissimilar materials are coupled in a corrosive electrolyte.

 

Cary, thank you.Questions, if I may: do stainless steel bead eyes of a given size weigh more than "regular" (bought in a fly shop) ones of the same size? Having taken a look at taken the Ball Chain Manufacturing website, more so at the chain size page, what size chain are you using for the Brunettes? #8 (5/32")? #10 (3/16")?

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