SkunkExtinction

Is my setup correct?

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Hello everyone, 

 

I recently pieced together a fly setup and I am not sure if I have it set up correctly. The rod is an old cabelas 10’ 8 weight and the reel is a redington rise 7/8 size. No problems here I believe. I have backing on the reel with 50 lb opst lazar line. Connected to the running line is a rio outbound short shooting head ST8S6. This is where I am confused. I believe that is the correct head for my rod and reel for fishing the rough and tumble west coast surf. Am I wrong? Also, would that shooting head be too heavy for back bay conditions with no surf or swell? I’m inclined to believe so. I had such a hard time casting that I’m thinking it’s possible my setup is not correct. However, it could also be the steep beach I was fishing as well as the fact that I am just starting to fly fish the salt and need to practice casting technique. Thanks guys. 

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Shooting head minimum 2 line size larger than rod line class!

lentgh of head can be a factor as well , if your not use to shooting heads get a Teeny Line 350 sounds about right for your rod ! Casting heads is the simplest form of fly casting. 

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Riopages list its weight 315gr so it is quite heavy for 7/8 single hand rod. I cast about 225gr using #7 rod and about 260gr using #8 rod which are rated well but nowadays rod rating can not be trust :(

 

Esa

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Your head setup should be fine for anywhere you want to go. It's a pretty high density line (sink 6), so it'll sink pretty fast. Not sure if that's what you want in the back bays but on a frothy beach with a drop off near shore that could be just the ticket to get you in the strike zone. When fishing shallower waters I'd opt for an intermediate line myself. Maybe even a floater if you want to stay high in the water column.

 

The RIO outbound short shooting heads are 3 line sizes over what they are stated as on the box. Your rod being a bit older is probably a fair 8wt as most older rods more closely align to the AFTMA rating system. That is to say an 8wt rod will do well with a line weighing around 210 grains with a 30 foot head.

 

That combination right there tells me your rod could be overloaded, which will make it less responsive and it will tend to get bogged down from the too-heavy shooting head. But there are people that like to overline so it depends on your casting style as well. Mostly the people who prefer to overline have a slower, more relaxed style. Mine is fairly aggressive so I don't overline. If anything I will underline instead to keep as much responsiveness as I can.

 

But it is most likely that your casting technique is not up to snuff. It takes practice and good practice at that to be a good fly caster.

 

Have you fly fished before or is this your first time doing it?

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From a gear perspective give it is almost certain that the line is too much for your 7/8 rod.

 

I tend to disagree that casting SH is a piece of cake going by on what I observe on the beaches. Not an easy line for a new guy to learn with.

If you are not using a line tray that is going to be likely causing you problems to.

 

Your cast is probably the other major issue. Your new to the salt are you also new to fly casting.

 

If so you need to get your cast sorted out.

 

If you are from fresh water and have a cast that looks like most every guy I have seen that comes to the salt from the rivers you need to go and get your cast sorted out.

 

It is a totally different deal and you need a decent cast that uses an effective double haul timed properly.

 

Hope this helps

 

mike

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I would also state that what you are fishing is not a "normal" or easy casting rig. Shooting heads are going to be a bit more touchy than a normal fly line. Also Lazer is harder to handle than a normal integrated running line. Not that you can't learn on it but it is going to be harder and you may pickup some bad habits. I would buy a cheap WF8F line to practice up on. Nothing fancy. Get the technique down and go back to a shooting head setup if you want.

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Thank you for all the helpful responses. I have some experience fly fishing in freshwater. Lately, I have been tight line nymphing with a mono line so I think that is helpful transitioning to a shooting head/running line setup. There is no question however that I need to work on my cast. It sounds like the shooting head I got is a bit heavy for the rod. I should have done more research before jumping the gun....on the plus side I actually landed a diaper Striper my first time trying with said setup. I was only able to reach the very edge of the beach lip which was frustrating. 

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As I recall, the rod you are using is more parabolic than you would want with a relatively heavy head.  It is much harder to achieve shooting head firing position with a parabolic rod, unless you underline the rod.  I suggest you look at the following video - even though Andrew  is using a 2 hand Beluah rod, he states that it is light enough to cast one-hand, and proceeds to demonstrate firing position one handed.  The problem with a head being too heavy for your rods power is that it will be virtually dragging in the sand when you are at the firing position, due to the significant flex in the rod.

 

 

My two shooting head rods are a Sage RPLXi 10wt and a Fischer 12/13 wt, both 9ft in length, and significantly more parabolic that today's standard tip-flex shooting head rod.  Like RedGreen, suggested, my shooting heads for these rods align to the AFTMA standard, and are thus true 10 and 12wt heads.

 

I do not agree with the contention that a full length floating line will completely resolve your shooting head casting issues.  For me, at least, I find that my shooting head backcast stroke is longer than that with a full floating or intermediate line, and that my forward cast stroke is more upwards, vice my full line forward stroke, which is very close to horizontal.

 

You mentioned that you are fishing a steep beach, so I assume you have little back cast room.  One possible solution to this specific issue is to adapt single hand spey casting techniques, such as are becoming popular in trout fishing.  However, these are best accomplished with a floating scandi head with a sink tip and, since you need to get down quickly, a short fluorocarbon leader.

Two videos that address this technique..

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, SkunkExtinction said:

Thank you for all the helpful responses. I have some experience fly fishing in freshwater. Lately, I have been tight line nymphing with a mono line so I think that is helpful transitioning to a shooting head/running line setup. There is no question however that I need to work on my cast. It sounds like the shooting head I got is a bit heavy for the rod. I should have done more research before jumping the gun....on the plus side I actually landed a diaper Striper my first time trying with said setup. I was only able to reach the very edge of the beach lip which was frustrating. 

Great start to catch a Striper first time out. Good to get the feel of a mono running line. When you get your cast right there is going to be a lot of it in your tray but if you restrict the amount to that which you can comfortably cast that will help with tangling.

Casting from bottom of a steep slope is not easy. If you can find an easier place just to start of with that will make a huge difference.

If you can run to some casting lessons they will make a huge positive impact.

 A line tray also called a stripping basket is pretty much essential if you are going to control your running line.

 

Dont be hard on yourself. You are new and it takes a bit of time to get clued up. 

You are not to know that some fly lines and SH are not made to AAFTM line standards. Some are typically two lines up. Now with some modern rods which are more powerful than the rating given it works out ok.

 

With rods closer to their ratings it does not work out  always so well. It all depends on the individual rod.

 

For my rods with short 30 foot heads which are two lines up I go one size down in the line.

 

So my 8 wt rod is matched up to 7 wt OBS line.

 

Some fly shops will let you try out first.  

 

Good luck and enjoy.

 

mike

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Timing is critical w/ shooting heads,much less forgiving than a full fly line which will likely be easier to cast till you get the mechanics down.Practice in an open area where the steep beach you mention isn't an issue.

An intermediate line is a very useful and versatile line for general purpose fishing out front and in back.You might consider a purchase of one for your day-to-day fishing.The shooting setup is more of a specialty line that you will find useful in a strong surf or current but not the easiest to learn the basics with.

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Posted (edited) · Report post

I watched a slew of vids on Skagit yesterday, some say heavy and some say otherwise.

i'd like to try the one hand approach in salt with a 9'    9/10 wgt   older St. Croix

what type and wgt shooting head would work?

Edited by jimmythe bee

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Posted (edited) · Report post

36 mins ago, jimmythe bee said:

I watched a slew of vids on Skagit yesterday, some say heavy and some say otherwise.

i'd like to try the one hand approach in salt with a 9'    9/10 wgt   older St. Croix

what type and wgt shooting head would work?

This is easy to answer :) Heavier line casts longer and delivers bigger fly but casting needs more force. Eventually stiffer rod is needed to make casting easier but rods can handle serious overlining!

 

Scandi taper behaves bit smoother than Skagit taper when Spey casting and Spey cast efficiency comes bit better too but when overhead casting Scandi taper is definitely easier to cast good line loops. However biggest difference comes from their typican leader length.

 

Esa

Edited by crunch

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As red green and others said your head may be way too heavy.  The outbound short weights 310 grains which is the standard for 11 weight rods. Try getting and casting a 210 grain shooting head which is the rating for an 8 weight rod or buy a scale and cheap Chinese DT in an 8 wt and cut off the tip at 210 grains to make your own shooting head and test cast that. I don’t know the action of your rod but slower rods can’t be over lined as easily as faster, stiffer rods which has already been stated previously.  Check this information out https://www.stripersonline.com/surftalk/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=480021The end of that article stated “Mega confusing! Just don’t buy a single handed line for a two handed rod!!” or just don’t buy a double handed line for a single handed rod.

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i'm think of a cheapo two-hand starter setup off of Amazon---100 bucks for rod ,reel.and SH

 

bay and beach worthy---what wgt and length for the pole

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Jimmy. Good luck with that one. Redgreen has plenty of experience making affordable TH rods for the salt. Check out his thread on the rod building forum.

Search TH threads. Plenty on how to build from carp or spin blanks if budget is tight.

 

If that is new stuff for $100 then it will likely be junk and 100 wasted. You can do better.

 

Mike

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