secampb1

strongest fly line loops

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The problem with having a spliced leader to the fly line instead of a detachable one is if the butt section of the leader gets abraded when tarpon run around channel markers etc., having to replace it on the boat is not a very pleasant or practical thing to do. I concur with inserting a separate length of spectra inside the loop to double up the thickness, adding a 50' top shot of JB  etc.(something I learned from our own Hirdy) and serving the end of the loop instead of using nail knots. For those that prefer nail knots, substituting mono with braid for the knots would produce a slimmer and smoother profile going through the guides.

Theoretically rigging an entire  knot-less system from backing to leader butt is not difficult to achieve however practicality sometimes dictates otherwise. 

Edited by sidelock

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Posted (edited) · Report post

If you cut a short piece of mono braid from the spool to work with, or insert the splicing needle from the spool side instead and work towards the loose end, a much shorter piece of wire would suffice to perform this task.

Edited by sidelock

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9 hours ago, sidelock said:

If you cut a short piece of mono braid from the spool to work with, or insert the splicing needle from the spool side instead and work towards the loose end, a much shorter piece of wire would suffice to perform this task.

That's true. But I can buy a 40 foot coil of Malin #3 wire at KMart or any of a half dozen tackle shops within 5 miles of my house for under 4 dollars; and a bent section coiled up with the open ends bent at an acute angle so they don't go inside long splices, is much easier for me to find than one of those little tools. If a bent coil takes more than 30 seconds to find, I just make another one. They are also handy for serving the ends, tying nail knots  when necessary, doing long splices and removing ear wax with a gentle bend before starting the loop. 

 

As for practicality, knotless leaders are not for everybody, nor are crimped loops. It depends on what kind of fishing you are doing, when you are doing it, and who you are doing it with.

 

Most of those I fish with want to actually catch tarpon, so we fish the edges of weed lines in channels at night. Flies and leaders need to be checked for Bay grass and Sargasso weed after every cast. This is infinitely easier with a knotless leader which not only picks up none, but the connection between fly line and leader slides through the guides every time without ever hanging up, so the fly can be checked quickly, then re-cast even with the leader connection  halfway through the guides. Most of the abrasion occurs within 10 inches of the fly and is caused by the tarpon's rough maw. Cutting out that section and crimping on a fly is very quick.

 

In the event of a destroyed leader or busted rod, I  get another one out of the rod holder that's ready to cast or crimp a different fly onto.

 

 

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Posted (edited) · Report post

If you say so ! I was just commenting about the statement you made regarding switching to dacron or braid because braided mono doesn't hold up nearly as well as dacron or spectra when tarpon run around channel markers, coral, oysters etc. and that you use a "complicated" process to attach the leader that uses the finger squeeze technique and neither loops nor knots. 

If you are concerned about the braided mono loop becoming abraded and failing, wouldn't the adjacent leader butt cause the same concern ? and when it does become abraded and need replacement wouldn't it be a PITA to deal with in the boat if its spliced to the fly line with a sleeve ? If on the other hand most of the abrasion occurs within 10" of the fly, the butt section then is not an issue, or is it ? not trying to get into a pissing match but Just sayin !

Edited by sidelock

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21 hours ago, wjc said:

I put up a video about 10 years ago on youtube that can be found searching "video hollow mono  loop fly fishing appletarpon". It is a decent video I think on the technique of making the loop itself, but I've changed a few things. The extra catch I used to use is not needed.

 

I have since gone to using either dacron trolling braid or hollow "Toro Tamer" instead of hollow mono as BHorsley also does. I discovered that the mono does not hold up nearly as well as dacron or "Spectra" type line when tarpon run around channel markers, coral, oysters etc as do the others. Again, like Brian, I have gone to serving the connection rather than relying on one or two nail knots on the backing end. The reason is that the nail knot on that end may well be going through the guides at 30mph pulling against the drag - even faster for billfish. It can fetch up on one of them, and slide off, sounding like a .22 long rifle round and scaring the hell out of you - thinking your rod just exploded.

 

I now serve them with hollow gel spun, coat them with pliobond and cover with a couple coats of "Hard as Nails". There is never a problem with them going through the guides and the "Hard as Nails" remains very pliable and super slippery and can be re-done repeatedly.

 

On the leader end, I use a complicated process that not many people would bother with, using the finger squeeze technique and neither loops nor knots with a crimped loop to the fly.

 

The backing end is also a blind spliced loop, but the backing for the tarpon rods is 60# Toro Tamer up-spliced to 80# Jerry Brown for about 50 feet to the blind spliced loop. After the reverse pull-through, when making the loop, I insert a length of 80# inside just the loop section to serve as a cushion for the loop to loop handshake connection. It not only eliminates the cutting action of thin line but also makes the loops much easier to get apart.

 

Cheers,

Jim

 

how are you  inserting the 80#?  isn't that resisting all the way?

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1 hour ago, secampb1 said:

how are you  inserting the 80#?  isn't that resisting all the way?

I'm not familiar with Toro but I blind splice 60#  to 100# Jerry Brown Hollow One without any issues.

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On ‎4‎/‎4‎/‎2019 at 4:39 PM, sidelock said:

If you say so ! I was just commenting about the statement you made regarding switching to dacron or braid because braided mono doesn't hold up nearly as well as dacron or spectra when tarpon run around channel markers, coral, oysters etc. and that you use a "complicated" process to attach the leader that uses the finger squeeze technique and neither loops nor knots. 

If you are concerned about the braided mono loop becoming abraded and failing, wouldn't the adjacent leader butt cause the same concern ? and when it does become abraded and need replacement wouldn't it be a PITA to deal with in the boat if its spliced to the fly line with a sleeve ? If on the other hand most of the abrasion occurs within 10" of the fly, the butt section then is not an issue, or is it ? not trying to get into a pissing match but Just sayin !

I'm not exactly sure what you are saying. I use 200# Toro for the sleeve between fly line and butt leader, not hollow mono where channel markers and other obstacles are prevalent.  Yes, it can fail though it hasn't yet. The weave is far more tightly compacted than hollow mono expanded over a 12wt fly line and far less susceptible to abrasion.

 

The problem with sleeving the butt leader to the fly line with anything, and especially hollow mono, it that it will stretch during the first fish fight and the butt leader will poke out the side, tearing up the sleeve when casting. If the fly line has a solid mono core like those I use, it will help the butt leader tear it up as well. Eliminating that problem is a PITA and why I didn't mention it.

 

And yes, the method I use cannot be done in a boat - which is one reason why I have spare rods already rigged in the boat.

 

secampb1 , I use (again) a bent length of #3 Leader wire. Say your backing is on the reel and you are making a loop. You pull a bunch of backing off it. Then you run the wire through the side of the line x inches (of your choice) up from the end of backing towards the reel. You then  put the reel  through the big wire loop (costing you about 15 cents) and pull the doubled slack through the center of the backing with the wire. Now you push that tag end towards the reel turning it inside out over the main line. Now you have a loop on the correct end of the backing with a tag section riding along the main line. You can make the loop any size you want now by sliding the tag up and down the line.

 

To insert another line inside just the loop to cushion the handshake connection and make it easier to take apart, mark the junction of both lines at the start of the loop with a marker. Now, slide the tag end a long way up the main line towards the reel so your mark is now in a straight line with the junction of the loop. Now you can run your wire into the line from the outside line forming the loop junction to the mark on the line and come out the side there. Insert the cushioning line into the wire loop and pull it through and out the side. Cut off the excess and slide the loop back to the proper size. Then do the catch.

 

Cheers,

Jim

Edited by wjc
clarity

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9 hours ago, wjc said:

I'm not exactly sure what you are saying. I use 200# Toro for the sleeve between fly line and butt leader, not hollow mono where channel markers and other obstacles are prevalent.  Yes, it can fail though it hasn't yet. The weave is far more tightly compacted than hollow mono expanded over a 12wt fly line and far less susceptible to abrasion.

 

The problem with sleeving the butt leader to the fly line with anything, and especially hollow mono, it that it will stretch during the first fish fight and the butt leader will poke out the side, tearing up the sleeve when casting. If the fly line has a solid mono core like those I use, it will help the butt leader tear it up as well. Eliminating that problem is a PITA and why I didn't mention it.

 

And yes, the method I use cannot be done in a boat - which is one reason why I have spare rods already rigged in the boat.

 

secampb1 , I use (again) a bent length of #3 Leader wire. Say your backing is on the reel and you are making a loop. You pull a bunch of backing off it. Then you run the wire through the side of the line x inches (of your choice) up from the end of backing towards the reel. You then  put the reel  through the big wire loop (costing you about 15 cents) and pull the doubled slack through the center of the backing with the wire. Now you push that tag end towards the reel turning it inside out over the main line. Now you have a loop on the correct end of the backing with a tag section riding along the main line. You can make the loop any size you want now by sliding the tag up and down the line.

 

To insert another line inside just the loop to cushion the handshake connection and make it easier to take apart, mark the junction of both lines at the start of the loop with a marker. Now, slide the tag end a long way up the main line towards the reel so your mark is now in a straight line with the junction of the loop. Now you can run your wire into the line from the outside line forming the loop junction to the mark on the line and come out the side there. Insert the cushioning line into the wire loop and pull it through and out the side. Cut off the excess and slide the loop back to the proper size. Then do the catch.

 

Cheers,

Jim

gotcha, your first paragraph I do with all my backing but I never figured to do the second part.  Thanks

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