ZAFisher

TH rods

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Posted (edited) · Report post

Mainly aimed at Mike O, but others can chime in,

 

A TH beach rod suitable for out front conditions, what does finished weight end up being?

I understand that total length will play a part, but say on one of your blanks Mike, perhaps weight for each?

 

Red Green, you built, if I recall correctly on a cut down blank recently, any recollection of what it weighed when you were done?

Edited by ZAFisher

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Posted (edited) · Report post

My first TH for the beach was built on a blank weighing nominally 5 ounces, with three titanium framed ceramic guides and recoil single foots runners as well as a recoil tip top. It also had a syncork handle and a DPSM reel seat.

 

This was a 12' rod similar in power to the old TCR 12'9" 9wt which many regarded as brutish. It did not do well as it was too short and not stiff enough.

 

The finished rod weighs 8.4 ounces. 

 

My most recent build (third one) was on a blank weighing 8.3 ounces, had a longer syncork handle, titanium ceramic guides and tip top, Alps aluminum reel seat and a 2.5 ounce counterbalance to bring the balance point closer to the bottom of the rod. 

 

This was a 14' rod and probably one of the most powerful if not the most powerful TH fly blank in the world so about double that my 12'er. 

 

That rod weighs 16.5 ounces. 

 

My 2nd rod was built like my 12'er. Same components, but on a 6.3 ounce blank and a small counterbalance as well as a longer handle. It was 13'. 

 

That rod weighed 11-12 ounces. 

 

These are all very conservative builds. Minimum amount of epoxy, shortest wraps possible, no hook hanger, winding check, etc. just the bare minimum. 

 

For a 12' rod suitable for out front conditions your rod weight shouldn't be less than 11 ounces if you're building minimally. If it is your blank probably doesn't have the material to give it sufficient power to tame out front conditions. The lightest blank I know of that works out there is a 6 ounce blank and very high quality pre-preg. 

 

So basically blanks suitable for out front work weigh minimum 6 ounces. I am talking rods 12' and up. Shorter rods just aren't suitable for out front as you can't generate enough line speed to keep fishing meaningfully. Others will disagree with me but that is what I and others who have fished out front with fly rods have found. 

Edited by RedGreen

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I appreciate the response.

Great info.

I had a number in my head of around 11-14oz, but thought I was off the mark.

Clearly not.

Thank you kindly

B

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Z

 

13 footblank is around 7.5 ozs.

 

Rod weight varies with handle length . Guides not that significant. Reel seat can be. 

 

If you start off with  a blank of the indicated weight the rod will not feel heavy or clumsy at all.

 

mike

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Thanks Mike.

I understand that there are some variables.

Reel seats can be quite heavy, if I opt for machine ali... any reason you can think of that I should opt for this route, other than weight with a purpose vs light reel seat and then adding weight to alter tip to butt balance?

Just like to have some numbers in my head as this will turn into a new project soon.

From me to me.

'Cause I can.

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Z

 

The seat I use as std is the REC RFTS TRU Lock.

 

It is black anodised aluminium. There is some self assembly and epoxying involved of the fixed hood.. I use it because it is very strong and well made. You need to order the finishing ring separately. You won’t find this ring on the REC web site. You have to ask them for it. It really sets off the job. Without it the work looks unfinished.

 

Now Redgreen use counter  balance weights. This works for him but not everyone. On my own rods 12’ 9” and 14 feet I do not try and use a reel or counter weights to get a certain balance.

 

I want the lightest swing weight I can get. I use a light fly reel.

 

Ok on lower handle I use alternate rubberised cork with natural,cork. The heavier rubbersised  helps the balance a bit.

 

It is worth leaving out any counter weights until the very end even fish the rod a few times before committing to them.

 

I do not use counter weights on any of my rods surf fly or spin. 

 

Mike

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25 mins ago, Mike Oliver said:

Z

 

The seat I use as std is the REC RFTS TRU Lock.

 

It is black anodised aluminium. There is some self assembly and epoxying involved of the fixed hood.. I use it because it is very strong and well made. You need to order the finishing ring separately. You won’t find this ring on the REC web site. You have to ask them for it. It really sets off the job. Without it the work looks unfinished.

 

Now Redgreen use counter  balance weights. This works for him but not everyone. On my own rods 12’ 9” and 14 feet I do not try and use a reel or counter weights to get a certain balance.

 

I want the lightest swing weight I can get. I use a light fly reel.

 

Ok on lower handle I use alternate rubberised cork with natural,cork. The heavier rubbersised  helps the balance a bit.

 

It is worth leaving out any counter weights until the very end even fish the rod a few times before committing to them.

 

I do not use counter weights on any of my rods surf fly or spin. 

 

Mike

 

ZA,

 

I built my TH rod from one of Mike's blanks.  Built the 12'9" Mark II.    The build was pretty much 100% to Mike's recommendations for reel seat & guides (REC RFTS & SIC single foot titanium).     Just weighed the finished build and it comes in at about 12.3 oz.    Can fish this rod all day without any hint of it being too much.   

 

I've purchased a second blank from Mike, same rod,  (and I need to get my arse in gear to have it done for sprint),  and I may make provisions for a small cavity on the butt cap to allow me to add a small amount of additional weight as I use a pretty light reel in comparison to some of the other TH reels and for where I like to position my rod under my arm for a TH strip the tip always seems to be low for comfort and I then have to repositon the rod back under the arm a little further to get a nice balance point.   At least if I build the butt section this way and I decide I don't want to change anything no big deal as I don't have to add weight and just leave that space empty.   We're not talking much if anything.   

 

HT

 

 

 

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I have built this style TH rod handles and I can use same light weight reels I use on SH rods and I can hold from warm cork and have balance when I fish. However there comes a need to change top hand placing down for a cast and back up for fishing but it comes naturally for me and my self made rod setups are few ounces lighter than my factory made rod setups.

 

I like to think I have saved some money when I don't have to buy too many reels but it definitely does save room on my luggage when I travel. I like the looks as well :)

 

Esa

20151217_214451-01.jpeg

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2 hours ago, ZAFisher said:

Thanks Mike.

I understand that there are some variables.

Reel seats can be quite heavy, if I opt for machine ali... any reason you can think of that I should opt for this route, other than weight with a purpose vs light reel seat and then adding weight to alter tip to butt balance?

Just like to have some numbers in my head as this will turn into a new project soon.

From me to me.

'Cause I can.

I like purpose fly rod designed reel seats. But there is a big choice out there.

 

Other than reel seat weight balance is also going to be effected depending if you mount your seat up or down locking.

 

FWIW I mount mine up locking which suits better how I  hold my rod on certain retrieves when lifting rod tip over oncoming waves. I hold rod on lower handle under arm pit and an uplocking  seat gives more space.

 

I use top handle as well to,fish the rod. Have options..

 

mike

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45 mins ago, crunch said:

I have built this style TH rod handles and I can use same light weight reels I use on SH rods and I can hold from warm cork and have balance when I fish. However there comes a need to change top hand placing down for a cast and back up for fishing but it comes naturally for me and my self made rod setups are few ounces lighter than my factory made rod setups.

 

I like to think I have saved some money when I don't have to buy too many reels but it definitely does save room on my luggage when I travel. I like the looks as well :)

 

Esa

20151217_214451-01.jpeg

Esa

You save weight and a fair amount of money on cork and also reduce build time.

I know someone else who has gone for this split grip design.

 

I would use it on my own rods except for the fact that I do use during a session all of my long upper handle. I like to vary position of my hands when fishing

the rod. 

 

Mike

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1 hour ago, crunch said:

I have built this style TH rod handles and I can use same light weight reels I use on SH rods and I can hold from warm cork and have balance when I fish. However there comes a need to change top hand placing down for a cast and back up for fishing but it comes naturally for me and my self made rod setups are few ounces lighter than my factory made rod setups.

 

I like to think I have saved some money when I don't have to buy too many reels but it definitely does save room on my luggage when I travel. I like the looks as well :)

 

Esa

20151217_214451-01.jpeg

I must say, I really like this look, would have to try it first, but it does appeal.

I'm going to play around with this idea on a 10'6" #6 I have in the garage; it throws an Airflow Delta 7/8 really nicely for roll casts.

Whilst not an out front rod, I like the idea of a longer foregrip for a rod that I use primarily for roll-casting for Yellowfish on the Vaal river, one hand up one on the extended but should make for efficient roll casts (I hope...)

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Thanks to all for input!

On 3/25/2019 at 8:01 PM, RedGreen said:

My most recent build (third one) was on a blank weighing 8.3 ounces, had a longer syncork handle, titanium ceramic guides and tip top, Alps aluminum reel seat and a 2.5 ounce counterbalance to bring the balance point closer to the bottom of the rod. 

 

This was a 14' rod and probably one of the most powerful if not the most powerful TH fly blank in the world so about double that my 12'er. 

 

That rod weighs 16.5 ounces. 

 

My 2nd rod was built like my 12'er. Same components, but on a 6.3 ounce blank and a small counterbalance as well as a longer handle. It was 13'. 

 

That rod weighed 11-12 ounces. 

Please rattle my addled brain, I recall you mentioning the blank(s), but cant seem to find the information.

14' - blank?

13' - blank? was this the one you trimmed the tip?

 

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2 hours ago, ZAFisher said:

I must say, I really like this look, would have to try it first, but it does appeal.

I'm going to play around with this idea on a 10'6" #6 I have in the garage; it throws an Airflow Delta 7/8 really nicely for roll casts.

Whilst not an out front rod, I like the idea of a longer foregrip for a rod that I use primarily for roll-casting for Yellowfish on the Vaal river, one hand up one on the extended but should make for efficient roll casts (I hope...)

I use narrowish hand spacing for casting and then take hold from balanced position when I begin fishing. Casting hand position depends of few things where rod length and line head weight have biggest effect. When rod is shorter it also has lighter swing weight and I can cast using narrower grip width and the line speed comes fast. Line loop comes naturally narrower when rod is short.

 

Esa

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