Fishin Technician

Fast vs Slow Rods

Rate this topic

52 posts in this topic

Again I am biased to the 1989 series of the RPLX Sage rods. If a rod that was branded to be to stiff and you had to over line it, would it not be a faster rod if you underlined it..less line diameter  equals less resistance and more line speed, as long as you use smaller sized flies.

 

FT

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The "speed" of a rod does not change with the load placed upon it. It is entirely dependent on the blank's wall thickness, diameter, material, and taper. A fast rod has a soft tip relative to the rest of the rod which is often a lot stiffer. A slow rod has a stiffer tip and a more pliable middle section and backbone. 

 

While a rod will bend more or less depending on what load is placed on it this has absolutely zero bearing on it's action. Lots of people including the marketers of rods call them "fast" when they mean underrated or stiff overall. Likewise, they say slow when they mean weak or floppy. It's a pet peeve of mine as it's a total bastardization of the definitions of terms.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
54 mins ago, RedGreen said:

It's a pet peeve of mine as it's a total bastardization of the definitions of terms.

It's one of mine too. Are they doing it to confuse people? It's working ....

 

Cheers,

Graeme

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Agreed to above posts, fast and slow are terrible descriptors, it would be much more educational if rods were designated according to where the bend occurs as Orvis has done, calling them tip or mid action, or alternatively, action angle as defined in Common Cents, then there would be no confusion about what’s going on. That being said, I like a rod with the bend up near the the top.

JC

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, RedGreen said:

The "speed" of a rod does not change with the load placed upon it. It is entirely dependent on the blank's wall thickness, diameter, material, and taper. A fast rod has a soft tip relative to the rest of the rod which is often a lot stiffer. A slow rod has a stiffer tip and a more pliable middle section and backbone. 

 

While a rod will bend more or less depending on what load is placed on it this has absolutely zero bearing on it's action. Lots of people including the marketers of rods call them "fast" when they mean underrated or stiff overall. Likewise, they say slow when they mean weak or floppy. It's a pet peeve of mine as it's a total bastardization of the definitions of terms.

Good explanation 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited) · Report post

In February there was a topic here, "Underlning".

 

Part of my post there:

 

"Most casters load the rod to a certain feel of resistance.  Given the exact same casting stroke, the lighter line will not flex the rod as much or give you the feedback of as much resistance....resulting in most casters INCREASING the acceleration and speed of their casting stroke.  This changes the dynamics of orthopedic issues at the elbow and shoulder.  A heavier line, on the same rod compared to a lighter line, will load the rod at a slower acceleration speed and allow for a slower stroke.  Altho some might argue the fine points of it, the heavier line will result in the rod feeling like a slower action rod.  Some like that, and I believe there is reason to believe slower action strokes....and rods....are less likely to cause orthopedic problems."

 

My point:  The rod will not BE slower..or faster....action depending on being UNDERlined....or OVERlined, but it WILL cast and FEEL differently......in such a way that has some similarities to a true slow or fast action rod.  For one thing, the speed of your stroke and the speed of rod loading will change similarly.  With a blindfold on, it would take an astute and experienced caster to tell the difference.  Think of it as a "poor man's" or "pseudo" rod speed manipulation.

 

The terms "fast" or "slow" would be more correct if applied to.......not the rod.....but the speed of the loading phase of the casting stroke.  A  "fast action" rod will always take a faster loading stroke (but still slower if overlined) than a similarly under or overlined "slow" action rod.  And there could well be some overlap in absolute speed between the underlined slow rod and an overlined faster rod.

 

Modern rods of whatever action CAN cast an incredible range of line weights....in the hands of an experienced  caster who knows the necessary adjustments in casting stroke.

 

By all means, borrow different line weights, get out on the pond and cast away.  Figure it out for yourself.

 

"A good caster can cast anything"......the late Ben Taylor, author of "Fly Fishing the Florida Keys".

Edited by Peter Patricelli

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just a tad more to the mix.

 

 

Many Guys believe a rod described as slow will be soft,weak and overly flexible.

 

Any rod can be made to be like this. They are horrible and they exist.

 

 

Slow Rods can be every bit as powerful as a so called fast action rod.

 

They can be made so all the sections are pretty meaty.

 

For some reason fast action is linked with power. When in reality it is action or if you like how the rod flexes.

 

Having said that generally speaking if you pick up a high end 9 or 10 wt fast action rod of today it is going to be very powerful.

 

 

mike

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Peter makes a point that has long been a contention of mine; that fast action,stiff rods exacerbate/cause a lot of problems w/ the joints in your arm.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Both JonC and DrBob make reference to how Orvis would rate their rods with the Flex system and I always found that  to be the most useful to me.

 

I think my favorite rod has always been the mid-flex. I never found them to be less powerful related to casting ability or to have less backbone.

 

The mid-flex would require a bit of a slower casting stroke and I liked that, I found it to be more relaxing and more accurate which was a big plus when sight casting.

 

With regards to backbone I believe that many fly fishers don’t know how to fight a big fish to really know what the true backbone is of the rod they are using. The more experience a person has eventually leads them to fighting a fish using the true back-bone of the rod.

 

Andy Mill does the best demonstration on how to fight a big fish utilizing the back-bone of the rod and it has nothing to do with the rating of the rod.

 

I can only read the rating on the rod but the final decision for me is made by test casting the rod.

 

For many years my main Striper rod was my 9 wt Orvis Access, it always seemed to have a bit of a Softer Action,   I believe it is a Mid-flex. That rod has been discontinued so I always hope nothing bad ever happens to it. When I wanted to go an 8 wt, I test casted a number of rods and when I tried the TFO Mangrove the action of the rod it quickly reminded me so much of the action in my Access. The Mangrove is now my 8 wt.

 

I never read the rating on the Mangrove  but I suspect it is not rated Medium. I think with the the rating system today at best when someone utilities that system today it is a crap shoot if you don’t have the opportunity to actually test cast a rod.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited) · Report post

14 hours ago, Fishin Technician said:

Again I am biased to the 1989 series of the RPLX Sage rods. If a rod that was branded to be to stiff and you had to over line it, would it not be a faster rod if you underlined it..less line diameter  equals less resistance and more line speed, as long as you use smaller sized flies.

 

FT

My understanding is that:

 

Line speed is far more related to your casting stroke efficiency and haul speed than it is to line diameter.  

 

Line mass trumps line diameter when distance casting (into wind or not).  

 

The need to "over-line" a rod is almost always the caster's fault and not the rod's fault.  Fix one's backcast and the rod will likely work fine.

 

 

 

 

   

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

    

 

 

 

   

 

 

Edited by numbskull

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When rod action chit chat gets nit picky, I define 3 characteristics and try to be clear what I mean

 

1) taper - flex profile, where does a rod bend along its length

2) stiffness - overall resistance to bending for a given line rating

3) recovery rate - how quickly does a bent rod straighten

 

——

 

Many call a taper “fast” when it is a steep “tip action”, others call a rod “fast” when it is stiff and hard to load, and still others talk about a “fast” recovery rate.   All of these “fast” traits can vary independently, or be aligned.  Got fast?  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 mins ago, numbskull said:

The need to "over-line" a rod is almost always the caster's fault and not the rod's fault.  Fix one's backcast and the rod will likely work fine.

Yes !!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, numbskull said:

 

 

The need to "over-line" a rod is almost always the caster's fault and not the rod's fault.  Fix one's backcast and the rod will likely work fine.

 

 

 

 

   

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

    

 

 

 

   

 

 

Sometimes but there are lots of rods which are too stiff for standard line weight! As often fly angler does not even understand he/she already overlines because most fly lines are heavier than standard!

 

Esa

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to register here in order to participate.

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.