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66th SAW/SARC

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MakoMike

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12 mins ago, hydraman said:

So how did they know in the 80’s it was time. Mike it seems moratorium is not what you want. But what if it’s the  only answer. What say you? Would you suck it up and say ok moratorium

Not What I want? I seriously doubt that a complete moratorium will be necessary to rebuild the population, but if that's what it takes, so be it. I don't fish for stripers much anyway. But you're getting way ahead of yourself here, until we know the rebuilding timeframe its impossible to speculate on how to get there.

====Mako Mike====
Makomania Sportfishing
Pt. Judith, RI
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1 hour ago, MakoMike said:

Any bets on how long a rebuilding period they will choose?

I'm still not convinced that they will choose any at all...

"I have always believed that outdoor writers who come out against fish and wildlife conservation are in the wrong business. To me, it makes as much sense golf writers coming out against grass.."  --  Ted Williams

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35 mins ago, hydraman said:

So how did they know in the 80’s it was time. Mike it seems moratorium is not what you want. But what if it’s the  only answer. What say you? Would you suck it up and say ok moratorium

How did they know?

 

I always tell this story.  I was up in Long Island Sound, at the western end of Connecticut, and my father and I were bucktailing a shoreline on a slick-calm morning just before sunrise.  The water was a silver mirror, completely still and silent, and there was only one other boat along a piece of coast that, in better times, held a dozen or more.  After I don't know how many casts, both on that morning and on the mornings of days that had gone before, I finally hooked, fought and released a bass.  And in the quiet that followed, all I could hear was a haunting applause coming from the boat maybe 75 yards away.  Whether he clapped because I caught the fish, or because I let it go, I will never know for certain.  But I will always remember the haunting sound of his clapping carrying across the near-barren Sound.

 

It's not good now, but believe me, it's nothing close to as bad as it was back then.

"I have always believed that outdoor writers who come out against fish and wildlife conservation are in the wrong business. To me, it makes as much sense golf writers coming out against grass.."  --  Ted Williams

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7 mins ago, CWitek said:

How did they know?

 

I always tell this story.  I was up in Long Island Sound, at the western end of Connecticut, and my father and I were bucktailing a shoreline on a slick-calm morning just before sunrise.  The water was a silver mirror, completely still and silent, and there was only one other boat along a piece of coast that, in better times, held a dozen or more.  After I don't know how many casts, both on that morning and on the mornings of days that had gone before, I finally hooked, fought and released a bass.  And in the quiet that followed, all I could hear was a haunting applause coming from the boat maybe 75 yards away.  Whether he clapped because I caught the fish, or because I let it go, I will never know for certain.  But I will always remember the haunting sound of his clapping carrying across the near-barren Sound.

 

It's not good now, but believe me, it's nothing close to as bad as it was back then.

So really what’s going on now. Most of the coast is getting an occasional run for a day or two. Some spots more some nothing at all. So in my eyes it’s kind of wishful thinking we can get the stocks up to the levels we need them with the current management system. 1 fish at 28 did nothing to help. What’s next? 

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2 mins ago, hydraman said:

So really what’s going on now. Most of the coast is getting an occasional run for a day or two. Some spots more some nothing at all. So in my eyes it’s kind of wishful thinking we can get the stocks up to the levels we need them with the current management system. 1 fish at 28 did nothing to help. What’s next? 

As Mike has said, we don't know quite what we have to do until the Technical Committee runs the numbers.  They're supposed to have at least one possibility on the table at the May meeting.  My guess is that it's going to involve a size limit somewhere in the mid- to high-30s, but that's just a guess.  A season may be a part of the answer, too, particularly in more southerly states, where warm water really ramps up discard mortality.    

 

But the big thing that's going to be needed is will.  Whatever the Technical Committee comes up with, it's going to involve a big cut and will thus face big opposition.  Enough folks who care about the fish are going to have to come out to outweigh the folks who will want to maintain the kill.

"I have always believed that outdoor writers who come out against fish and wildlife conservation are in the wrong business. To me, it makes as much sense golf writers coming out against grass.."  --  Ted Williams

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2 hours ago, CWitek said:

As Mike has said, we don't know quite what we have to do until the Technical Committee runs the numbers.  They're supposed to have at least one possibility on the table at the May meeting.  My guess is that it's going to involve a size limit somewhere in the mid- to high-30s, but that's just a guess.  A season may be a part of the answer, too, particularly in more southerly states, where warm water really ramps up discard mortality.    

 

But the big thing that's going to be needed is will.  Whatever the Technical Committee comes up with, it's going to involve a big cut and will thus face big opposition.  Enough folks who care about the fish are going to have to come out to outweigh the folks who will want to maintain the kill.

So in the 80’s the eye test was enough for you to understand but now you need more. That’s the whole problem to much politics. I’m not trying to call you out just going by what you said sir. A lot of us that are out a lot and cover vast areas can see this coming a mile away. And a bunch of scientist that know everything can see this coming? Both you and mike have spend lots of time on the water to see the signs. Why are you so hesitant to say what it is. If it quacks like a duck it’s a duck. What numbers do you need to see when it’s right in front of our face. Usual and traditionally productive spots are barren. Montauk has not had real blitzing in over 5 years and longer. At least not how I remember it acres of bass you can walk on. Ok canal has fish just give it a little longer they will be gone from the canal also. I hope I’m wrong and you guys can get this straitened out. Good luck 

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27 mins ago, hydraman said:

So in the 80’s the eye test was enough for you to understand but now you need more. That’s the whole problem to much politics. I’m not trying to call you out just going by what you said sir. A lot of us that are out a lot and cover vast areas can see this coming a mile away. And a bunch of scientist that know everything can see this coming? Both you and mike have spend lots of time on the water to see the signs. Why are you so hesitant to say what it is. If it quacks like a duck it’s a duck. What numbers do you need to see when it’s right in front of our face. Usual and traditionally productive spots are barren. Montauk has not had real blitzing in over 5 years and longer. At least not how I remember it acres of bass you can walk on. Ok canal has fish just give it a little longer they will be gone from the canal also. I hope I’m wrong and you guys can get this straitened out. Good luck 

So basically you're saying don't bother with science just manage by the seat of your pants? That's not how it is, or should be done. The Magnuson-Stevens act requires that management be done using the best available science. ASMFC may choose to ignore the MSA, but that doesn't make it the right way to do things. 

====Mako Mike====
Makomania Sportfishing
Pt. Judith, RI
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4 hours ago, hydraman said:

So in the 80’s the eye test was enough for you to understand but now you need more. That’s the whole problem to much politics. I’m not trying to call you out just going by what you said sir. A lot of us that are out a lot and cover vast areas can see this coming a mile away. And a bunch of scientist that know everything can see this coming? Both you and mike have spend lots of time on the water to see the signs. Why are you so hesitant to say what it is. If it quacks like a duck it’s a duck. What numbers do you need to see when it’s right in front of our face. Usual and traditionally productive spots are barren. Montauk has not had real blitzing in over 5 years and longer. At least not how I remember it acres of bass you can walk on. Ok canal has fish just give it a little longer they will be gone from the canal also. I hope I’m wrong and you guys can get this straitened out. Good luck 

As I mentioned earlier, this is nothing like the way things were when the stock collapsed.  Yes, things are not good now.  I don't deny that.  But the situation we have today is nowhere near as bad as it was back then.. Right now, we have the 2015 year class coming up, and average-level spawns in 2017 and 2018.  In 1980, there was nothing like that on the books.  After 1971, recruitment tanked.  Amendment 3, which was intended to protect the 1982 year class, was protecting a year class with a Maryland YOY index of a little over 8.  Today, 8 would be considered sub-par.  In 1985, the management decision was easy; the stock was completely collapsed, and the only option was to reduce landings to about 5% of the remaining stock (there was never a universally-imposed moratorium; each state imposed its own, at different times and of different lengths, and at least two states, Massachusetts and New Jersey, didn't impose moratoriums at all, although NJ prohibited sale of bass due to PCB contamination).  Today, there are still enough fish around to allow the stock to be recovered with some combination of size limits, bag limits and seasons.  But we can't know just what form that takes until the numbers are run, and we lack the skills to do that calculation.

"I have always believed that outdoor writers who come out against fish and wildlife conservation are in the wrong business. To me, it makes as much sense golf writers coming out against grass.."  --  Ted Williams

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