Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
Roccus7

Yesterday's ASFMC Striper Meeting

Rate this topic

36 posts in this topic

3 hours ago, Sea Of Atlas said:

The commercial fishery should be the first fishery to go since by percentage commercial guys are more likely to kill a striped bass then a rec. Of course reduce recreational take while we are at. Get rid of that old dumb dumb way of management that talks about cycles and points at recs as the problem. I don't care how old you are or how long your family killed bass for money you need to cut that **** out. 

Yup!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, bdowning said:

I'd be interested to hear the science or assumptions behind the recreational release mortality numbers, i.e. how they were determined.

Seems like a pretty high number, doesn’t seem like the average rec angler fishing from shore would hit the numbers very fast, the Ridiculous party boats that go out 7 days a week and Gaff shorts could be the reason the rec kill numbers are so high.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited) · Report post

12 hours ago, stripedbassking said:

Good at least it seems like The EEZ will remains Closed, hope that stays true. And also the wording seems like they’re dragging their feet until May??? There must be a financial reason for that.......

Whether the eez opens or not is not the ASMFC's decision, its solely up to NOAA/NMFS. Their letter about is doesn't carry any more weight than yours would.

 

The reason they are dragging their feet until May is because the stock assessment isn't final yet, due to the federal government shutdown. They can't act on it until it's official. They really could have put this whole meeting off until May.

Edited by MakoMike

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

9x? Really?  I have no idea if this is actually true or not but doubt the depth of the information collected since I'm a recreational angler and 100% of all my 2018 released fish swam away. I was not asked about this so suspect there were selective observations made to acquire such data. In the real world we call this marketing. Did my fish die after release? Who knows but know there were no tracking tags in my released fish to check for this. But when comparing to comms who are more likely to kill a non-keeper? Bigger size range for them with very different motive? Less comms but much higher limits and greater average time on the water per trip.

 

I love data. It gets people excited. Even people that are responsible for making decisions including spending money that are targeted emotionally instead of ethically or scientifically. Some numbers + bold statements + emotionally charged = reckless decisions. 

 

Try this: Kill rates are way up for recreational fisherman! 100% of all fish kept by recreational fisherman DIE. That's right, ONE HUNDRED PERCENT DIE!!!  Why such a high number? " [insert stupid reason here - then seek reckless emotional decision] "

 

All this said, if you hold a commercial license are are legal, I have no issues with you personally.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The figures for the amount of fish released come from the MRIP system. The dockside intercept protocols ask the interviewer to ask about how many fish and of what species were released. Keep in mind that those figures are for all modes, i.e. surfcasters, private boaters and the forbore fleet. The mortality rate of those released fish was determined based on several studies. Personally, after watching some of the antics of some surf (jetty) fishermen in RI, I have a hard time believing that the mortality rate is as low as 5%

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 mins ago, MakoMike said:

The figures for the amount of fish released come from the MRIP system. The dockside intercept protocols ask the interviewer to ask about how many fish and of what species were released. Keep in mind that those figures are for all modes, i.e. surfcasters, private boaters and the forbore fleet. The mortality rate of those released fish was determined based on several studies. Personally, after watching some of the antics of some surf (jetty) fishermen in RI, I have a hard time believing that the mortality rate is as low as 5%

I agree with you there. The rates seem like two extremes and the truth lies somewhere in the middle. That said, I would like to see these studies and how they were carried out, but my guess is they aren't publicly available? I do think that C&R recs as a group tend to underestimate post-release mortality and 5% seems low to me.

 

As long as they address the declining SSB problem over the long term, I'm good. As roccus said, the main question will be how to achieve that. It's....complicated. :cool:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited) · Report post

Actually I found out today that they used 9% for the recreational mortality number.  That means that recreational fishermen caught 38 million striped bass last year IF the numbers rec numbers here are close to correct!!!

Edited by Roccus7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmmm....we could eliminate 52% of the mortality if all fish had to be released for a few years.   That's not too much of a sacrifice in my book.   Toss in a side helping of education of rec anglers and we could reduce that number more.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Topside2 said:

Hmmm....we could eliminate 52% of the mortality if all fish had to be released for a few years.   That's not too much of a sacrifice in my book.   Toss in a side helping of education of rec anglers and we could reduce that number more.

How did you do that math?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Found out something interesting this week in that the Maine Volunteer Angler Logbook (VAL) program does include those data in their yearly reports to ASFMC so it's probably important that as many of us as possible participate.  They provide you with a logbook that you fill in and send to them in a pre-paid mailer they give you.  After they copy your log so they can have the data, they'll the log back to you.  You can also ask for an Excel version of the log like I did.  I keep my log in Excel anyway so this would make things easier.

 

Here's the comment from Mike Brown at DMR:

 

Yes, we do use the Recreational Anglers Logbook data for the coastwide striped bass assessment.  The logbook program is a very important and integral part of the data Maine provides for the assessment.  The length data  are used to calculate a number of statistics that are then combined with data from all other states that fish for striped bass.  The length data are used to calculate age, spawning stock, numbers of discards, hooking mortality and number of fish lost to poaching.  The dedicated anglers and DMR staff that manage the system do a great job making sure the data is accurate and that anglers stay engaged in the program.  If you know of any additional anglers that would like to participate please let us know.  We do require that they record all fishing activity and provide accurate data resulting from their fishing trips. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, MakoMike said:

How did you do that math?

5c5ca49fad8fd_striperremovals.jpg.5fa316223f658a1f5ad2360c73218e07.jpg.6359cf10e664d30597bba5b0338022e6.jpg

 

             Recreational Harvest 42%

+ Commercial Dead Release: 2%

             Commercial Harvest: 8%

______________________________

                                                52%

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
45 mins ago, bran_dj said:

5c5ca49fad8fd_striperremovals.jpg.5fa316223f658a1f5ad2360c73218e07.jpg.6359cf10e664d30597bba5b0338022e6.jpg

 

             Recreational Harvest 42%

+ Commercial Dead Release: 2%

             Commercial Harvest: 8%

______________________________

                                                52%

 

 

 

Even if you assume you could suspend all commercial activity, all of those fish that were now released would still have a close to 10% morality rate. That's the mortality rate for all released fish. The only way to reduce mortality to zero is stay at home and don't go fishing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Recs kill way too many bass, that's a fact that should be immediately addressed by raising length limits and reducing take. 

 

But the numbers about recs killing 9X as many fish as comms also misses a point entirely.

 

Bass are a severely limited resource.  Management is about how to allocate that resource.  On the east coast there are millions (maybe tens of millions) of people who at one point or another angle recreationally for bass.  Meanwhile, there are - last estimate I saw was from several years ago, number is likely even lower now - less than 15,000 comms.  Even distribution of the bass resource should yield then something like 1000X more bass killed by recs.  But it doesn't because comms, a tiny fraction of the numbers of recs, are allowed to take a hugely disproportional percentage of the yearly kill.  

 

Millions kill 90% of bass, 15K kill 10%.  Or if we assume there are 15 million recs and 15,000 comms that would mean:

0.1% kill 10% of the bass.  Equally distributed they should only kill 0.1% of the bass, instead comms kill 100X that amount.  Even if there were only 1.5 million recs, the comms would still be killing 10X their equal proportion.  Think about it. 

 

So why should the comm fishery should be shut down or cut back to include only legacy operations?  Because it's a drastically unfair allocation of the resource.  And don't even bring up the economic aspect - the comm economic impact is a scintilla of the recs. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to register here in order to participate.

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.