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Are two-piece rods becoming obsolete?

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Killiefish

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Just FYI on two-piece rods.  Until recently, I worked for a fly rod and tackle manufacturer.  The company sold a line of rods that included the same weight and length rod in a two-piece as well as a four piece.  For the same rod model, the two-piece rods were cheaper in price, and yet he two-piece version of the rod did not move at all.  In fact, when the rod line was updated, and the older model rods were put on sale, and the two piece rods were all that were left unsold in the store and the prices were further reduced.  Eventually, the 2-piece rods were pulled from the stores and shipped to outlet stores, where they were reduced in price to well below cost, just to get rid of them. 

 

A while back there may have been a difference, but most anglers, myself included, cannot tell any difference in performance between a two vs a four piece rod.  So most anglers choose the convenience of a four piece. 

 

One gentleman I know insisted he hated four-piece rods.  Kiddingly, I suggested to him to just epoxy the two tip and two butt sections together to make a two-piece rod that he desired.  He did!.....and was happy about it!   We laugh about it every time we see each other.

Edited by afishinado
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I understand the convenience for traveling as the world is a lot smaller now and what once was an exotic trip maybe not so much anymore but it's a shame that the value of two piece rods have dropped to the point you can't give them away.     I probably have 12 to 15 Orvis graphite rods left me by my dad all two piece, except one,  and are all in great shape.  All 8 to 12 weight he used mostly for salmon fishing.   Never used them all.  With virtually no value I guess I should look for up and coming young fly fishers to possibly donate them to.

 

BTW,   I have the following 3 piece rod and the only 3 piece I've seen.   It's an Orvis 10 ft 3 piece "Salmon" for a 9wt at 4-3/4oz.   Must be fairly old as the ferrule construction is not integral to the rod blank.   Appears to be new and never used.   I'm assuming the rod industry just jumped over the 3 piece design and went right to 4 piece ?

 

HT

 

rods1.jpg.e7013e1454757d921ad2b31fbe3bfc5c.jpg

 

rods2.jpg.ee84a857db9046f5a749503905e4e198.jpg

Edited by HillTop

Currently have aphasia.    Aphasia is a result of my head stroke causing a bleed.   Happened in my Maine vacation in July (2021).   Lucky me less than 1% of people get stroke aphasia.  :(      I'm making project but have been told this is easily 5 months to 1 year for this to improve.   Until then hope you don't mind making sense with what I text.   HT

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16 hours ago, PSUFly said:

I just bought one of the TFO T.F.R. rods in an 8 wt.  It's listed as medium fast, so I'm interested to see how it compares to my TFO Pro 2 8wt, 4pc (also listed as medium fast).  All the other fly rods I own are 4 pc with the exception of the 7' Eagle Claw Featherlight.  Honestly, unless I'm flying or trying to fit a bunch of stuff in the car for vacation, I don't completely break down my rods anyway.  

I'd be interested in your comparison between the two TFO rods.  I also, on a whim, picked up the TFR in 8w.  My only comparison with it from TFO is the TiCr (in 7wt, which is a powerful 7 more like an 8wt  that seems a bit better uplined).   The actions are very similar with the TiCr faster (bends in top third mainly, with the rest being quite stiff).   Cosmetics on both are similar except for the extra ferrules/wraps and the cork - syncork on the TFR, real cork but lower quality on the TiCr, and the reel seat on the TFR rod is better - same seat as on the TFO Mangrove.

 

Both rods seem to love an 8wt Sage Equator taper.  In casting, the TiCr loads more off the tip.  The tip stability in both is similar - slight initial wobble but dampens quickly.  Guide spacing is quite different on the rods (first collector is further up the blank on the TFR) and the size of the first two collector guides on the TiCr is much larger.  When I downline the TFR to a 7 weight forward line it performs almost exactly like the TiCr 7wt.   It's a bit heavier than the 7wt TiCr but not by much.  The overall feel of the TFR is smoother and the action is more moderate.  By smoother, I mean that the rod gives better feedback throughout the full casting arc than the 4 piece TiCr, and is more stable when pushed hard.  It's a very good rod IMO, and not expensive.

 

My particular sample of this rod is an oddity...The TFR 8wt I own was in Lefty's personal collection, and it is an early prototype, with Lefty's signature, and a blank space for the rod name; not yet marked TFR (stands for Tough Fly Rod). 

 

 

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HT

 

 Me and you are Fishers of a certain age. Why not invest in a salmon fishing trip and get some usage out of those old rods. Your wife can give them away for free just as easily. 

 

Wow I remember those ferrule designs. Hardy used them to. I have a very old as in at least 42 years  Hardy Brook rod about 7 feet long. Really it is a rod I  have little regard for but I can’t sell or give it away. Needs re ringing but what’s the point.

 

Mike

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HT that would be a great way to pay it forward!  Could donate to kids just starting out or to your local chapter of Trout Unlimited or whatever your local equivalent is.

 

Out West we have several groups that work on native trout and salmon conservation.  Every year they have used gear auctions to raise money for ongoing conservation work.  Each year they attract a few new members, some young some old, who are either just getting into (or back into) trout or salmon fishing and are short on gear. 

 

OTOH, certain older two piece rods actually hold their value quite well.  There's an older graphite two-piece rod on the evil auction site right now with over 35 bids and a price pushing $400.  Out West we have a fondness for certain older glass rods.  Two piece rods for salmon and steelhead are actually gaining hipness factor and popularity among a certain new generation that spends too much on avocado toast.  Single hand spey with very short head lines and an older more moderate action two piece rod can be a lot of fun and if it's the only outfit that fits your budget then that's fine, so be it.

 

 

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HT you could experiment building longer TH rod. Take butt plug away from 8wt and try if butt section of a heavier rod fits? Then just remove unnecessary handle and install few guides using masking tape and test cast. If it is fine and worth work build longer handle and wrap guides. If new butt section is too soft you can make it stiffer and stronger gluing another thinner blank section inside it.

 

Esa

"Game fish are too valuable to be caught only once" 1939 Lee Wulff
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Diamondback Backwaters were 3 piece, at first with spigot ferrules, then tip over butt. I kept one on my boat for bluefish but mostly went to 4 pc. because most of the travel bags are 32" and don't fit a 3 pc. I think now one of my son's friends is using it around NH. I do still have a soft spot for my 2 pc. Fisher GT40, sweetest rod I ever owned...

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6 hours ago, Killiefish said:

I'd be interested in your comparison between the two TFO rods.  I also, on a whim, picked up the TFR in 8w.  My only comparison with it from TFO is the TiCr (in 7wt, which is a powerful 7 more like an 8wt  that seems a bit better uplined).   The actions are very similar with the TiCr faster (bends in top third mainly, with the rest being quite stiff).   Cosmetics on both are similar except for the extra ferrules/wraps and the cork - syncork on the TFR, real cork but lower quality on the TiCr, and the reel seat on the TFR rod is better - same seat as on the TFO Mangrove.

 

Both rods seem to love an 8wt Sage Equator taper.  In casting, the TiCr loads more off the tip.  The tip stability in both is similar - slight initial wobble but dampens quickly.  Guide spacing is quite different on the rods (first collector is further up the blank on the TFR) and the size of the first two collector guides on the TiCr is much larger.  When I downline the TFR to a 7 weight forward line it performs almost exactly like the TiCr 7wt.   It's a bit heavier than the 7wt TiCr but not by much.  The overall feel of the TFR is smoother and the action is more moderate.  By smoother, I mean that the rod gives better feedback throughout the full casting arc than the 4 piece TiCr, and is more stable when pushed hard.  It's a very good rod IMO, and not expensive.

 

My particular sample of this rod is an oddity...The TFR 8wt I own was in Lefty's personal collection, and it is an early prototype, with Lefty's signature, and a blank space for the rod name; not yet marked TFR (stands for Tough Fly Rod). 

 

 

Yeah I am hoping to try it out next weekend, just lawn casting.  I'll report back once I do.  I am wondering if TFO built this rod as a two piece thinking it would be more durable?  I got the rod for it's lifting power and durability.  Comparing the two rods side by side, the TFR is a good bit thicker and seems stiffer in the butt section.  

Edited by PSUFly
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Hello Hill Top,

 

                             From what I can see from your pictures of the rod, it was a model that was produced under the Orvis western series of rods. Generation II or III graphite is the question. The rod bag and tube tells me that it was produced in the late eighties or early nineties and that tells me that it falls into the Orvis series of "HLS" era of rods that were being produced with 1970  tapers .  But it was not a HLS model rod as far as I know. I could be mistaken.

 

It was a good powerful rod for the time.

 

FT

Edited by Fishin Technician
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My favorite, lightest and smoothest rod is a GLoomis GLX one piece in #9. It is 8’10” because the extra 2” come in once you cut the same blank in 4 and add the ferrules... I guesed.

I did cast the same rod in 4 piece and even thought there is no loss in performance, the one piece is still more smooth and lighter.

All sales people swear the 4 sections is as good as if not better than the same rod with fewer junctions. I don’t think this is fisically and mechanically possible but as long as they allow people to travel and cast well, everyone is happy. For my day to day fishing for trout and strippers in CT, I have a Hardy Cintrix #4 and a cross current #9, both one piece. They fit in the car and go back and forth to the water. 

If I could, I would have only one piece rods.

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I like two types of rods: 1 piece and 4 pieces (or more). My favourite rods are 8' one piece 'glass rods (for saltwater boat fishing.) If I travel, I have a four piece version of the same rod (but it's not really "the same".)

 

2 piece rods are in that dead zone of neither being convenient to travel with nor giving me the feel I like and security of a "no ferrule construction".

 

Cheers,

Graeme

FFi Certified Casting Instructor

 

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Graeme,

 

I hear you. Two piece is though more secure than a four piece. Not often my old RPL+ Rods shifted during the course of a days fishing. Most of my 4 pieces do unless I tape them.

I would love a one piece rod for Montauk especially when wet suiting and perched on small wave washed rocks. Not a great place to be when a rod separates . It could become an addition to my tackle dump. But first the Stripers need to make a strong return. Plus you lose time from fishing building such a rod in situ. And what choice is there for 9 foot one piecers.

 

mike

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On 1/20/2019 at 10:54 AM, HillTop said:

I understand the convenience for traveling as the world is a lot smaller now and what once was an exotic trip maybe not so much anymore but it's a shame that the value of two piece rods have dropped to the point you can't give them away.     I probably have 12 to 15 Orvis graphite rods left me by my dad all two piece, except one,  and are all in great shape.  All 8 to 12 weight he used mostly for salmon fishing.   Never used them all.  With virtually no value I guess I should look for up and coming young fly fishers to possibly donate them to.

 

BTW,   I have the following 3 piece rod and the only 3 piece I've seen.   It's an Orvis 10 ft 3 piece "Salmon" for a 9wt at 4-3/4oz.   Must be fairly old as the ferrule construction is not integral to the rod blank.   Appears to be new and never used.   I'm assuming the rod industry just jumped over the 3 piece design and went right to 4 piece ?

 

HT

 

rods1.jpg.e7013e1454757d921ad2b31fbe3bfc5c.jpg

 

rods2.jpg.ee84a857db9046f5a749503905e4e198.jpg

G Loomis did a lot of 3 piece rods back in the early 2000's.  I still have two of them my 12'6" 9/10WT Stinger Spey and a 9' 9WT Crosscurrent.  They cast very well.  This was in that period where only the really high end rods in 4 pieces were good casters.  If you wanted a mid priced rod that cast well 3 pieces was a good compromise for travel size with good castability at a more affordable price.

 

As far as donating rods that is something I have been doing.  I used to have 20 fly rods.  I am down to 9 rods now.  I sold four that were four piece or seven piece travel rods.  I have donated rods to freinds or family members that expressed interest about getting into fly fishing.  Those rod donations have resulted in seven people joining the fly fishing industry as they all ended up sticking with it.  Two of those rods were donated from my friends to other budding fishermen that are now also confirmed fly fishers.  So 7 donated rods created 9 new fly fishers. 

 

I think you wont be disappointed with the results if you are careful in selecting who you give those rods too.  Seeing new people enter the fly fishing world from your generosity is very satisfying.

Edited by The Graveyard Shift
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