Dominic Iadicicco

Flounder reg in NYS

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3 hours ago, Dominic Iadicicco said:

Why does NYS have a shorter winter flounder season then both NJ and CT?

 

I can't really find and info on ASMF web site.  Not that it searches well.

 

Thanks for any info.

 

Dom

whats a flounder?

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Very simple Dominic.

Once, you could go just about anywhere on Long Island and catch them by the bucket, and that's what everyone did.

Now there's none.

As said above, shouldn't be a season at all.

Edited by Rick67

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My pappy used to tell me about 'em back in the old days when we sat around the fire cookin baked beans.

 

I've tried getting a few for CnR from shore near my fluke spots... but of course..  NO DICE

 

 

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12 hours ago, Dominic Iadicicco said:

Why does NYS have a shorter winter flounder season then both NJ and CT?

 

I can't really find and info on ASMF web site.  Not that it searches well.

 

Thanks for any info.

 

Dom

Because there are essentially no flounder; the small remnant has grown so scarce that inbreeding is becoming a problem.

 

We discussed this at the Marine Resources Advisory Council at the time that ASMFC decided to allow a longer season.  The bottom line is that the DEC did the right thing and ignored the folks who wanted to kill the last buffalo.  And yes, there were plenty of such folks at the meeting.

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This does make sense, however,  NJ, CT and RI can still fish for them from 4-1 to 12-31 and I believe we still have a commercial season here in NY no.  Most of the fish markets here on LI advertise Fresh local Flounder. 

 

1) Why don't they just shut down all of it?

 

2) Why don't all States in the same waters have to follow the same rules?

 

Dom

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CT is fast approaching last buffalo too, folks go farther North to get their black backs.  What happened with the town or village that was doing a low-visibility attempt at raising their own flounder fry that got shut down by the state a few years back?  I thought that was an excellent idea and wonder why hasn't it been done, like they do with the trout?

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23 hours ago, Dominic Iadicicco said:

This does make sense, however,  NJ, CT and RI can still fish for them from 4-1 to 12-31 and I believe we still have a commercial season here in NY no.  Most of the fish markets here on LI advertise Fresh local Flounder. 

 

1) Why don't they just shut down all of it?

 

2) Why don't all States in the same waters have to follow the same rules?

 

Dom

Research is finding that the flounder stock is broken down into very discreet local populations that don't mix on the spawning grounds.  Thus, the fact that Connecticut, Rhode Island and New Jersey are open would not make the New York closure ineffectual, as they impact different spawning populations--although they may or may not impact New York fish later in the year.

 

For may years, biologists believed that winter flounder entered the bays in the fall, spawned in late winter, and that most exited the bays when the waters warmed and moved offshore.  Research over the past year or two has shown that is not necessarily true.  An acoustic tagging program in Shinnecock Bay revealed that there is probably two stocks spawning in the bay, one that migrates inshore and offshore as always believed, and one that never leaves the bay, although it moves closer to the cool water of the inlet during the summer; two different peaks of larval deposition give additional credence to the two-stock finding (there may also be a third stock that  leaves Shinnecock and travels through the bays, but never goes offshore, but evidence for such third stock is far less compelling).

 

Such small locally-spawning stocks make up New York's overall flounder population.  When one local stock is fished down, flounder from other stocks don't move in to take their place.  Instead, the area just has few or no flounder left, and remains barren.  Genetic study on Long Island fish has shown that populations in some places have grown so small that the fish are inbreeding, which creates its own set of problems.  

 

As far as shutting it down altogether, there is a lot of recreational and commercial fishing industry opposition.  Any state that is the first to close down its fishery is going to be in for a lot of criticism from folks who still want to wring the last $1.29 out if the dying population.

 

About a decade ago, Connecticut and New York agreed to shut down the entire fishery.  But Connecticut pulled out of the agreement literally the night before the announcement was to be made, so New York, which politically couldn't put in such a closure on its own, backed off as well.

 

I sit on both the New York Marine Resources Advisory Council and on ASMFC's Winter Flounder Advisory Panel.  We discussed a moratorium on MRAC, but representatives of the tackle shops objected, saying that it was a long winter, and that flounder was the first thing that brought people back into the stores, and so they were important to kick off the spring season.  I'm guessing that flounder aren't bringing too many people into the shops these days, but the fishing industry isn't famous for looking ahead and planning for its future.

 

At another MRAC meeting, some party boat folks pushing NY to adopt the same season length as NJ and CT admitted that the fish were gone to the bays, but said that they sometimes caught fish on the wrecks while fishing for sea bass and such, and didn't want to have to release them.  It's hard to believe that releasing the occasional flounder hurts their business in any way,but the idea of letting  one live instead of putting it in someone's cooler just seemed alien to them.

 

And the Advisory Panel also, on a few occasions, unanimously recommended that ASMFC declare a moratorium on the winter flounder fishery in southern New England and the Mid-Atlantic.  At one meeting, when the board was considering the Advisory Panel recommendation, I was personally criticized by an attorney representing the NY party boats as not having an economic interest in the fishery, who thus insinuated that my--and the Advisory Panel's--views shouldn't be considered, because we wouldn't be losing any money if the fishery was closed.

 

So the bottom line is that there are some people who will always try to squeeze the last drop of blood from a dry and crumbling stone, and right now, it is the flounder that's doing the bleeding.

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On 1/11/2019 at 10:06 AM, Dominic Iadicicco said:

This does make sense, however,  NJ, CT and RI can still fish for them from 4-1 to 12-31 and I believe we still have a commercial season here in NY no.  Most of the fish markets here on LI advertise Fresh local Flounder. 

 

1) Why don't they just shut down all of it?

 

2) Why don't all States in the same waters have to follow the same rules?

 

Dom

Forgot to answer your last question.  The states have to adopt regulations that are "no,less restrictive" than those adopted by ASMFC.  So NJ, CT and RI have adopted regulations identical to those adopted by ASMFC, while NY has chosen to try to give their local spawning populations more protection, and so have maintained regulations that are more restrictive, which is OK.

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11 hours ago, Popasilov said:

Massachusetts and Main still have a fair population of winter flounder

I do not know for how long.

 

 

They fish on the Gulf of Maine stock, while we (along with southern Massachusetts) fish on the southern New England/Mid-Atlantic stock.  Our stock is in worse shape, but except for a small part of Massachusetts Bay, the Gulf of Maine stock doesn't seem to be doing too well, either, although the stock assessment is somewhat fuzzy.

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