Mike

2019 Blackfish Regs

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32 mins ago, Billy 40 said:

Everyone is responsible for the fishery being in shambles. BUt they can reduce the REc #'s as muh as they want, until they figure out how to stop the pots it's a total waste of time. It's pretty much at the point that a moratorium is useless, because we're pretty damn close to one anyway - you can barely catch any legit keepers. Even so, I have nothing but time on teh water and looking at teh internet constantly to base my views on

Billy, poaching is always an issue - uncontrolled mortality like poaching isn't an excuse to stop regulating a stock. I hope you guys are screaming and yelling at your DEP about all this pot poaching - I don't see it around here, but the fish pirates have historically been much worse up that way. You guys should be demanding the DEP address the poaching...if they stopped it and that allowed the fish to recover a little bit everyone would win.

 

TimS

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19 mins ago, Billy 40 said:

Obviously my view is skewed and it is not documented. Those numbers make my shake my head. the fishing has been terrible the last few years. Yeah a lot of big fish, but not a lot of fish. The bite has sucked until the NY season closed the past 3 seasons, and last year everything froze in early January. I do not understand how in 2003 4 5 the reported landings were so low. Again my view is skewed, but those years the fishing was excellent.

 

As stated, Sandy was responsible for the reduction of fish caught, because nobody had a boat. That was the last year the fishing was really good up here and very few people were out there

 

Everyone is responsible for the fishery being in shambles. BUt they can reduce the REc #'s as muh as they want, until they figure out how to stop the pots it's a total waste of time. It's pretty much at the point that a moratorium is useless, because we're pretty damn close to one anyway - you can barely catch any legit keepers. Even so, I have nothing but time on teh water and looking at teh internet constantly to base my views on

Billy,  its not ONLY the pots, the species get hit from every angle, and all add up to a  big bang effect, its the NJ and NY boats hitting those big pieces, now they are dead, the small 6 PACK boats, hitting the smaller pieces, soon they will be done, every **** that has a boat and can hold at least 4 peeps is advertising charters for tog, maybe not publicly but I seen it and heard it first hand, and some publicly advertise  effing  boat limit. Dont you think the draggers, have an impact?  the increased population of  dog fish ? the poachers? We ALL know and seen it coming, aint nothing new, we are all out there, we seen it over the last several years. 

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It is also a product of there is nothing else to fish for this time of year. It wasn’t all that long ago that whiting would have been the main target of most of the party boats this time of year. The average joe would probably rather pay his fare and get a sack of whiting instead of a skunk. 

 

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TIm, the potters are allowed 25 fish in their possession, per day. There is no way to enforce anything because they only have 25 fish on them at one time. They go back and forth all night with 25 fish, they would have to get stopped multiple times in one day to get fined. Once they get stopped once, they don't do it again for that day. DEC cannot do anything if they are not in possession.

 

I see your point about the numbers of people targetting them now vs then. THere have always been a ton of people targetting them since I started, at least up here. Teh Down SOuth CApe MAy Barnegat fishery might be different. BUt up here there was always a ton of boats on the Reef. The past few years that same giant number of boats have been on New Grounds/Dump. I only know what I personally see, which is a fraction of the fishery.

 

Tony, I do not think the draggers are a problem, there are so few of them out there - that I see with my own eyes. THEre used to be 3 roller gear boats that I woudl see, ut now if there is one it's a lot. THe pots - they used to put 100 pots to catch 1000 fish. When the fishery started to suck and those pots would only catch 500 fish....they doubled the number of pots. DO that a few times, and now there are pots all over everything. Th North Shore. WEstern Sound is pretty much unfishable due to the number of posts on everything. Although its my understanding that they did arrest the worst offender of this. Btu who knows.

 

ANd I'm not sitting here playing innocent, I know all the trips I made and the fish I took are part of the problem. It seems like we're now all on a mission to be the one to catch the last fish standing between Elberon and Rockaway Reef

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15 hours ago, Billy 40 said:

TIm, the potters are allowed 25 fish in their possession, per day. There is no way to enforce anything because they only have 25 fish on them at one time. They go back and forth all night with 25 fish, they would have to get stopped multiple times in one day to get fined. Once they get stopped once, they don't do it again for that day. DEC cannot do anything if they are not in possession.

DEC isn't incompetent...they understand the tools poachers use probably better than we do. If they suspect a commercial is making multiple trips to their pots they could just set up a sting at the dock rather than intercept them on the water. When they unload the first batch, just sit and wait with binoculars until they come back to unload again.  Are blackfish required to be tagged by commercials in NY?

 

There are ways to catch them - if the people that pay salaries at the DEC (NY residents) were to make enough noise about the poaching problems the DEC would find a way to stop it. Including finding out where the blackfish are being sold and going after those restaurants/fish dealers/whomever is buying them.  Poaching isn't impossible to stop - but it will require the DEC to make it a priority.  Someone needs to make more noise until the DEC responds in a meaningful way :read:

 

TimS

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Tagging is the way to go IMO. I don't know how that work with the live fish trade. Would people bitch about tagging live fish for sale? 

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14 mins ago, Mike said:

Tagging is the way to go IMO. I don't know how that work with the live fish trade. Would people bitch about tagging live fish for sale? 

They're probably mostly illegal operations so don't see how putting tags on them is going to help matters.  This fish has some characterics that appeal to the Asian community and they won't stop until every last one is swimming in a tank in CHina town.  As B40 says get out there and catch em before someone else will.

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37 mins ago, Fly By Nite said:

They're probably mostly illegal operations so don't see how putting tags on them is going to help matters.  This fish has some characterics that appeal to the Asian community and they won't stop until every last one is swimming in a tank in CHina town.  

Easy if all legal fish have tags then the DEC can confiscate any fish without tags in any and every restaurant. Lets see how much of a black market is left after these scumbags keep loosing their inventory.

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1 hour ago, Fly By Nite said:

They're probably mostly illegal operations so don't see how putting tags on them is going to help matters.  This fish has some characterics that appeal to the Asian community and they won't stop until every last one is swimming in a tank in CHina town.  As B40 says get out there and catch em before someone else will.

It only helps in that it makes apprehension much more straight forward - if it's not tagged and you have more than your recreational limit in your possession, you are poaching. If a boat is checked and they claim to be commercial fishing and the tog aren't tagged, they are poaching. If there isn't a tagging requirement there should be :read:  Makes things easier for law enforcement and more difficult for poachers.

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1 hour ago, MakoMike said:

Easy if all legal fish have tags then the DEC can confiscate any fish without tags in any and every restaurant. Lets see how much of a black market is left after these scumbags keep loosing their inventory.

Better - first offense, hit them with every fine possible for selling fish that didn't come through FDA inspected channels. I imagine there are numerous regulations requiring animal pieces and parts to be purchased only through properly licensed and inspected operations.  Second offense, $50K fine. Wanna see poaching stop? Remove the demand for illegally harvested fish. Incorporate real deterrent type fines for both the poacher and the operation buying from them. Start taking vehicles and vessels involved. Poaching will come to a screeching halt. It's not rocket science...make it no longer worth their while to risk getting caught.  

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13 mins ago, TimS said:

Better - first offense, hit them with every fine possible for selling fish that didn't come through FDA inspected channels. I imagine there are numerous regulations requiring animal pieces and parts to be purchased only through properly licensed and inspected operations.  Second offense, $50K fine. Wanna see poaching stop? Remove the demand for illegally harvested fish. Incorporate real deterrent type fines for both the poacher and the operation buying from them. Start taking vehicles and vessels involved. Poaching will come to a screeching halt. It's not rocket science...make it no longer worth their while to risk getting caught.  

Only problem with that is that the FDA (and no one else either) does not inspect fish and sea food. 

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DEC does target teh restuarants and fish markets as much as they can. They arrested the main guy catching them up in City Island, I do not knwo what happened other than that. Once lawyers get involved, you'd be surprised how much they get away with on a large scale.

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26 mins ago, MakoMike said:

Only problem with that is that the FDA (and no one else either) does not inspect fish and sea food. 

Do they inspect the places that wholesale fish? Do local authorities inspect fish wholesalers? When someone buys a fish from some guy through the backdoor they have no idea where it came from, when it was caught, how it was transported or stored or what it has come into contact with. I'm guessing there are some kind of inspections done that are bypassed by selling a fish through the back door of a restaurant - if not, there should be ;)

 

TimS

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29 mins ago, Billy 40 said:

DEC does target teh restuarants and fish markets as much as they can. They arrested the main guy catching them up in City Island, I do not knwo what happened other than that. Once lawyers get involved, you'd be surprised how much they get away with on a large scale.

Sadly, it wouldn't surprise me in the least Billy. That's why the fines need to be increased up to deterrent sized fines.  And the people involved should be so publicly outta and lambasted that their businesses suffer greatly. 

 

TimS

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