Mike

2019 Blackfish Regs

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66 posts in this topic

5 mins ago, MakoMike said:

Where have they "done it before"? No state is seems to be willing to divide their regs geographically within the state, it would probably make more sense for NJ to do it, given the differences between northern and southern NJ. I could see different regs in NY between the sound and other areas, but not between different parts of the south shore.

They did it just this year - the limits and start/end dates were different for the NY Bight and LIS.  IIRC, the Bight started 4 days later but had 11 more days of fishing.

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NJ has three regions for fluke regulations, northern, IBSP and Delaware Bay and 2 regions for striped bass, ocean and other saltwater. NY has 2 regions for striped bass, ocean/sound and upper Hudson river.

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26 mins ago, Billy 40 said:

Mike, stop for 1 second. THINK. When were the Regs 6 fish at 14"? As a lowly rodbuilder I'm pretty far down on the mensa scale...probably below a Sanitation Worker (lmao when he sees that).

Yep. 

 

Now I wouldn't go calling you or our favorite clean up guy far down the scale. That's one of the things I love about meeting fishermen as opposed to corporate types, lawyers and keep up with the Jones neighbors. With the latter it's about proving worth through external signs of smarts and accomplishment. With fishermen, we are all equal before our wiley yet pea brained quarry. You meet all kinds of brilliant people fishing and they are not delineated by whether they have degrees or million dollar homes.

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1 hour ago, Mike said:

NJ has three regions for fluke regulations, northern, IBSP and Delaware Bay and 2 regions for striped bass, ocean and other saltwater. NY has 2 regions for striped bass, ocean/sound and upper Hudson river.

IBSP isn't a region, it's a shore fishing site. For fluke all of NJ is one region except for DE bay, . In NY you're talking about freshwater vs saltwater, not regions per se. I have no idea about striped bass in NJ. 

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3 hours ago, Mike said:

 

OMG! Really? Yes... Really! Damn....

 

I saw this over at Zuckerberg's yesterday morning and it was dated yesterday. Smh.... 

 

Did you see the thing that said "shared a memory"

 

Dumbest smart guy ever award is not in question.  Again.

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5 hours ago, MakoMike said:

I don't know what h's talking about but the feds AFAIK have no FMP for tog, so there is no reason for the feds to such anyone to do anything about tog. If they are really pushing NJ on tog, I would like to see that, since it might change my mind about the relationship between the feds and the ASMFC.

Agreed Mike...I'd like to know more about this - who "forced" NJ to do anything? Is it possible the advocacy groups are starting to realize their fighting the desperate need for reduction in mortality IS costing their clients money and WILL force them to fish for something else because people aren't that interested in spending $80 to stand at the rail all day and get three bites?  

 

I wonder which meeting minutes reflects this "feds making them"? I'd like to see who is responsible and send them a lovely fruit basket or something ;)

 

TimS

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11 mins ago, TimS said:

Agreed Mike...I'd like to know more about this - who "forced" NJ to do anything? Is it possible the advocacy groups are starting to realize their fighting the desperate need for reduction IS costing their clients money and WILL force them to fish for something else because people aren't that interested in spending $80 to stand at the rail all day and get three bites?  

 

I wonder which meeting minutes reflects this "feds making them"? I'd like to see who is responsible and send them a lovely fruit basket or something ;)

 

TimS

If you find anything please let me know. I suspect that the original author didn't (couldn't) tell the difference between the ASMFC and the feds.

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5 hours ago, Mike said:

 

OMG! Really? Yes... Really! Damn....

 

I saw this over at Zuckerberg's yesterday morning and it was dated yesterday. Smh.... 

 

Yikes...talk about amateur hour :squid:

 

 

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My faith in the Tautog Board(committee/whatever) is once again restored to lowest level of industry advocacy/harvest happy/shill status :(

 

Needed a 53% harvest in 2012 - that’s six years ago. Ten bucks says we still do.

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blackfish-nj-harvest.png

 

OK, follow this logic. This is NJ's recreational blackfish landing estimates per year. In 2011 "the feds" made NJ put regulations in place to reduce blackfish mortality by 53%. In 2012 is appears to be down 67% :th:   And in 2013 it went up 500%. Continuing to use 2011 as the reference point, in 2014 it went up 600%. 

 

NJ accomplished the desired 53% reduction - for one season - and then increased harvest by 500% the very next year. And even more the year after that. So what changed in 2013 that allowed NJ to increase their harvest 500% from the year before? If the feds forced NJ to reduce harvest by 53% at the beginning of 2012...why did they let them increase it 500% the following year? Where are the "feds" now and why aren't they forcing NJ to do anything now? :squid:

 

TimS

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9 mins ago, TimS said:

blackfish-nj-harvest.png

 

OK, follow this logic. This is NJ's recreational blackfish landing estimates per year. In 2011 "the feds" made NJ put regulations in place to reduce blackfish mortality by 53%. In 2012 is appears to be down 67% :th:   And in 2013 it went up 500%. Continuing to use 2011 as the reference point, in 2014 it went up 600%. 

 

NJ accomplished the desired 53% reduction - for one season - and then increased harvest by 500% the very next year. And even more the year after that. So what changed in 2013 that allowed NJ to increase their harvest 500% from the year before? If the feds forced NJ to reduce harvest by 53% at the beginning of 2012...why did they let them increase it 500% the following year? Where are the "feds" now and why aren't they forcing NJ to do anything now? :squid:

 

TimS

2012 was hurricane Sandy.  Reduced fishing activity is the reason for that number, I’d wager.

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1 hour ago, TimS said:

 This is NJ's recreational blackfish landing estimates per year.

Obviously my view is skewed and it is not documented. Those numbers make my shake my head. the fishing has been terrible the last few years. Yeah a lot of big fish, but not a lot of fish. The bite has sucked until the NY season closed the past 3 seasons, and last year everything froze in early January. I do not understand how in 2003 4 5 the reported landings were so low. Again my view is skewed, but those years the fishing was excellent.

 

As stated, Sandy was responsible for the reduction of fish caught, because nobody had a boat. That was the last year the fishing was really good up here and very few people were out there

 

Everyone is responsible for the fishery being in shambles. BUt they can reduce the REc #'s as muh as they want, until they figure out how to stop the pots it's a total waste of time. It's pretty much at the point that a moratorium is useless, because we're pretty damn close to one anyway - you can barely catch any legit keepers. Even so, I have nothing but time on teh water and looking at teh internet constantly to base my views on

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14 mins ago, Billy 40 said:

Obviously my view is skewed and it is not documented. Those numbers make my shake my head. the fishing has been terrible the last few years. Yeah a lot of big fish, but not a lot of fish. The bite has sucked until the NY season closed the past 3 seasons, and last year everything froze in early January. I do not understand how in 2003 4 5 the reported landings were so low. Again my view is skewed, but those years the fishing was excellent.

It's natural Billy, we all are most aware of the microcosm around us. The number of man hours spent blackfishing in 2003-4-5 compared to 2012-13-14 are more than likely worlds apart. While fishing might have gotten progressively worse over the years, the number of trips leaving the inlets to target blackfish has gone up and up. Think about how many more people are blackfishing now than 2003 - as you increase the number of people fishing and the number of trips targeting blackfish you can reduce the number of fish per person killed and get to the same harvest numbers.

 

2003 - how many blackfish charter boats were there? Boats that sailed for blackfish seven days a week. Now they are everywhere...sailing out of every inlet.  Now they even charter BEFORE the season is open for folks 1 fish/day limit (and boat limits) - something that was never factored in when that 1 fish/day season was left open. It was always done for spear fishermen to be able to shoot a tog when they were diving - it has turned into a directed charter/party boat fishery. Why not? People are happy catching one keeper in the cold of January, why wouldn't they be happy doing it in September?

 

I doubt the NY boats fishing the NY Bight are making up much of NY's blackfish landings compared to the eastern 1/3 of LI around around Montauk, through and around Orient Point, out to Fisher's Island and all through LIS. 

 

1 hour ago, Slacker said:

2012 was hurricane Sandy.  Reduced fishing activity is the reason for that number, I’d wager.

Good call...a couple weeks before the season opened, too. Damn...this just furthers my beliefs that NJ's fishery management is absolute rubbish...I was giving them props for accomplishing the 53% reduction in harvest the "feds" forced them to take. Turns out it was nature that reduced it, not the regulations :squid:

 

So cross out the victory for the regs in 2012...the 2013 harvest was a 50% INCREASE over 2011 - not the 53% DECREASE the changes were supposed to effect. And 2014 was another big increase :rolleyes:  

 

TimS

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