Angler #1

Making the Canal a Real Recreational

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298 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, rst3 said:

@Angler #1 to your point on localized, tribal populations removed from the ecosystem:

 

I don't know about other species, but this point has been well established with cod. The inshore cod of yesteryear had specific drift patterns with their distinct spawning grounds/eggs in the WMCCurrent. Once removed, and depopulated, the inshore strain no longer released their eggs along that track and so it disappeared.

 

Offshore cod have different drift patterns with their eggs. ...So repopulating the inshore grounds with inshore cod may take many, many decades, even lifetimes, to restablish those fish via outlier egg/fry from offshore fish.

 

I saw a video on a studies done up in the Netherlands (or perhaps the Baltic) specifically about Cod and how their populations have a sort of epicenter.  During times of abundance, those populations would actually expand their breeding areas and populate wider areas.  And as populations declined, the population density at the epicenter remained while the outlying areas saw no more cod.   In order for that expansion to occur however, they need to be allowed to reach a critical mass.    

If GOM cod behave similarly, repopulating inshore would probably first require that we allow the offshore cod to reach a population level that encouraged that expansion.

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20 mins ago, TimS said:

Never heard of this before, very interesting :th:  Followup question:  when you say "inshore" - you mean on the beach? I'm wondering how inshore/offshore we are talking about. I always believed abundance bought fish to the fringes of their range. Did the beach cod fishing disappear before the boat cod fishing began to suffer? 

My limited understanding of this phenomenon remembers 2 distinct spawning grounds for cod: winter harbor or inshore cod, and offshore cod. These different grounds produce fry streams that promote populations in two different areas of the ecosystem. Apparently there was limited/very slow crossover refilling of the inshore areas once the spawning population was removed through overfishing.

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45 mins ago, bob_G said:

Carl,

I've respectfully asked you this simple question before, but you seem reluctant to reply.

You say the striped bass is in trouble, and we all need to gird out loins to prevent another collapse.

Are you planning on curtaling your fishing activities with your "young commercial friend" in 2019 as a result?

I quit 15 years ago out of respect for the resource. Never had any regrets.

If I can do it, why can't you? :)

Bob going back to your post in regards to being personal I respectfully will say, as you did me, it is non of your business.   As My time to fish is getting closer to the end of life I will continue to fish with my young friend as long as i can .

As long as all of the laws are applied and he remains an ethical and caring fishermen and he wishes I will remain keeping him company .

 

I spend more time pure recreational fishing with my friend then I do commercially fishing . We never kill any fish, with out reason and those reasons will remain between my friend and I. 

 

Perhaps had you not posted privileged and private conversations it might have been different . I never have regrets on how I have fished my whole life  and I do not expect to begin now by changing my own personal approach to how I fish as a recreational and concerned angler.

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7 mins ago, pogie_boy said:

 

I saw a video on a studies done up in the Netherlands (or perhaps the Baltic) specifically about Cod and how their populations have a sort of epicenter.  During times of abundance, those populations would actually expand their breeding areas and populate wider areas.  And as populations declined, the population density at the epicenter remained while the outlying areas saw no more cod.   In order for that expansion to occur however, they need to be allowed to reach a critical mass.    

If GOM cod behave similarly, repopulating inshore would probably first require that we allow the offshore cod to reach a population level that encouraged that expansion.

Pretty much how many species do it.......

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9 mins ago, rst3 said:

My limited understanding of this phenomenon remembers 2 distinct spawning grounds for cod: winter harbor or inshore cod, and offshore cod. These different grounds produce fry streams that promote populations in two different areas of the ecosystem. Apparently there was limited/very slow crossover refilling of the inshore areas once the spawning population was removed through overfishing.

rst3 it is this type of known information on the cod that I have applied to the bass that we have along our coast. I wish Mr. Pond was still around to support what his research showed during his project done so many years ago . You all must recall Stripers Unlimited and all of the research data and what it presented to the striped bass community in helping the resource to recover. It is a shame that his works are hidden some where or destroyed when he passed . I think some answers may be there.

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1 hour ago, bob_G said:

Mike,

I disagree with you on something.  The recreational limit is not one fish as you stated. It's one fish per day, everyday. In many cases, this can mean 7 fish per week, and easily 20 plus per month when the fish are around. 

This is not pure conjecture on my part. I've witnessed these acts with my own eyes.  If you were here you'd see it too. The same retired guys.  Day after day, parading up and down the service road with a 25 pounder on their bike.  The sad part is, its all legal.

 

 

 

No disagreement, the per day was implied. My point is simple, you can't have a recreational fishery where the creel limit is less than one fish per day, it would be impossible to enforce without something like tags or some other complicated addition. The only possible solution is a striped bass season, possibly the same for all states along the striper coast or, IMHO more likely, tailored to when the fish are present and plentiful in each state along the striper coast. 

 

As for your other post, I have caught cod in 10 to 20 feet of water off of race point while the surf fishermen were catching striped bass.

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https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=12&ved=2ahUKEwi-mOXJ3_DfAhUFheAKHaSJBSkQFjALegQIBRAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Facademic.oup.com%2Ficesjms%2Farticle-pdf%2F67%2F8%2F1676%2F1668464%2Ffsq108.pdf&usg=AOvVaw08MCV_FDtzuzcdcGbYy8gD

 

that's a study from the Gulf of St Lawrence.
 

12 mins ago, robc22 said:

Pretty much how many species do it.......

well if we know this, and we keep chasing the fish populations around the sea and opening new areas, then we know that we are essentially overfishing and reducing the chance that fish in other areas will ever come back, even if we leave those areas alone.   

 

That said, I don't think that's how stripers do it.  Stripers, would not suddenly start breeding in new habitats because there were too many in the Hudson for example.  They would not necessarily start a new population of them that breed in the Coles river or the Taunton.

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First, welcome :)  I know you've been her for a bit but I don't spend enough time in this forum any more :o  

 

1 hour ago, fishcrat said:

Several have expressed concern about ASMFC sitting on it's hands while the current population of Atlantic Coast stripers continues to decline.  That's not the case and never has been since stock recovery was achieved in 1995 under the Atlantic Striped Bass Management Plan and recreational and commercial fisheries reflecting increased stock abundance resumed.  

 

If the above is in reference to posts I have made in this thread, I believe we need to better quantify "sitting on their hands" :)  Perhaps "fiddling while Rome burns" or "rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic" might be a better representation of my feelings towards the ASMFC's handing of striped bass management :)  The 25% reduction in 2015 wasn't reached by NJ - and the 20% reduction in MD turned into a 50% increase. It's 2018 now and I don't believe either of those issues has been addressed - that's fiddling while Rome burns. The 25% reduction that was reluctantly agreed upon at the ASMFC - do you recall what the Technical Committee recommended to them at the time? I don't recall and have to run for a bit :o  The point being, the SSB has been declining since 2002 - in 2015 the ASMFC took the very first step to reducing mortality - in 2016 the regular suspects were screaming for those changes to be reversed.  Allowing the population to decline from 2002 to 2015 (and through present day) is, in my opinion, seems like sitting on their hands.

 

I have to bail for a bit but I look forward to your participation in this discussion - the more factually accurate information folks have to examine the better educated they will be - and the fish are going to need non-financially vested fishermen to pull up their boots and join the fight :th:

 

TimS

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Just now, MakoMike said:

 The only possible solution is a striped bass season, possibly the same for all states along the striper coast or, IMHO more likely, tailored to when the fish are present and plentiful in each state along the striper coast. 

I believe that's about the only sane and implementable solution.   

Even if I think it sucks

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4 mins ago, pogie_boy said:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=12&ved=2ahUKEwi-mOXJ3_DfAhUFheAKHaSJBSkQFjALegQIBRAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Facademic.oup.com%2Ficesjms%2Farticle-pdf%2F67%2F8%2F1676%2F1668464%2Ffsq108.pdf&usg=AOvVaw08MCV_FDtzuzcdcGbYy8gD

 

that's a study from the Gulf of St Lawrence.
 

well if we know this, and we keep chasing the fish populations around the sea and opening new areas, then we know that we are essentially overfishing and reducing the chance that fish in other areas will ever come back, even if we leave those areas alone.   

 

That said, I don't think that's how stripers do it.  Stripers, would not suddenly start breeding in new habitats because there were too many in the Hudson for example.  They would not necessarily start a new population of them that breed in the Coles river or the Taunton.

I can agree with the last sentence. Only the bass marked for that area would do that in my opinion and that for me is what concerns me that we do not in fact what that number may be at. It matters for me , but not for others  to be able to identify or quantify what that population might be. 

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11 mins ago, MakoMike said:

No disagreement, the per day was implied. My point is simple, you can't have a recreational fishery where the creel limit is less than one fish per day, it would be impossible to enforce without something like tags or some other complicated addition. The only possible solution is a striped bass season, possibly the same for all states along the striper coast or, IMHO more likely, tailored to when the fish are present and plentiful in each state along the striper coast. 

 

As for your other post, I have caught cod in 10 to 20 feet of water off of race point while the surf fishermen were catching striped bass.

Mike I have also seen the same situation in another time during the heavy winter months in some places I once fished for Cod from shore. sort of makes you wonder where that has all gone to?

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I have seen what I now believe was breeding behavior in the Taunton 20 years ago or so, once, near the Pleasant st bridge in Dighton  at the entrance to an estuary there was a bunch of small fish all schooled up in the outgoing current and every now and then they'd dart around, and then every now and then there'd be a really big swirl.

 

After watching a video of guys fishing the mirimichi on spawning stripers recently, I realized what I was seeing back then.    They might have just been mowing down on grass shrimp or something being washed out of the estuary, which is what I assumed.  

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