Angler #1

Making the Canal a Real Recreational

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Just now, shark lobster said:

Its human greed the need to take more than you will ever need! Name a fisherman thats been on a blitz and caught one or two fish and let them go and then called it a day? Most guys during these times will not take the time to rivive a fish properly!

My friend Tim is this guy. Salty soul that has chased stripers for many years. I have seen him watch as an all out blitz is happening.  Honestly, sometimes I wonder who is having more fun?

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To engage in the conversation a little to my above post .

Every one knows or should know that I have and always will support the taking of any aquatic resource by commercial means including the striped bass we are talking here about.

It is my opinion that by making the canal strictly a recreational area in its self , for one aligns that to the policy mandated by the federal government that no commercial activity can take place on Army Corp Property without the consent of the Army Corp. This is my interpretation of the applied regulation I have been made aware of over many years [Like no one can take any one on a guided trip along the banks of the canal or the outer beaches, as it is a commercial venture with out written permission from those who operate these recreational places. 

 

The main purpose of addressing not allowing commercial fishing is two fold. Having the Army Corp  make an official declaration one way or another if they consider this as part of the domain that does or does not comply with the regulations that are  within the powers of they operate under, when it comes to any  thing commercially related inside this water way. The taking of striped bass inside the canal and then selling them has been a life long endeavor that no one can argue against and at the same time it is also a commercial operation , where fish of size have been removed every year for some one to make a profit on ,  Over the years, many of these removed fish have been imprinted to come back every year and a chain of events has reduced those numbers and will continue to do so , if some changes are not made to support a strong local based recreational base for those that do not have a boat to catch them will be lost.

 

The other part is that by eliminating the commercial aspect  and having the Army Corp issuing a declarative lawful to that fact, that they also will hopefully assist in generating better law enforcement to reduce the number of poachers that as of late,have set up camp here. It would also make it better for both the Army Corp and Environmental Police to enforce the present one fish per person fishing these waters. Will this stop all poaching , most likely that answer is no , but once every one is on the same train it may well at least make the canal a place where some with a family can at least  still catch a striper recreational y and take it home to eat. 

 

Lets face it the Cape Cod Canal over the past decade has become the epicenter of bass fishing along the whole East coast and we need to protect that for the future or recreational fishing for striped bass as we know it, or it will not exist given the present course of action that we have seen of late.

 

I would like Tim to put up a poll on this subject matter to see if the support among the fishing community is present or not to continue this what I feel is a worthwhile conversation for the Recreational  health and use of the Cape Cod Canal

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Carl, you used to be very fond of the stories you will tell me and others many years ago about you and your sons commercial fishing the backside of Cape Cod in its heyday.  You know the Cape Cod National Seashore which is Federally protected land just like the Canal.  Seems hypocritical to me on your part.  I can't understand why there isn't just a tagging system for both Commercial and Recreational.  There is no need for a recreational fisherman to be able to keep one fish a day everyday.  The commercial fisherman on the canal is one of the least concerning problems on the canal (I am not saying they are perfect).  The facebook fisherman is what has ruined the canal.  Anyone who is there often enough cannot deny this.  Real time bite reports to thousands with their trucks already packed waiting.  That's the real shame.

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35 mins ago, keepah said:

Carl, you used to be very fond of the stories you will tell me and others many years ago about you and your sons commercial fishing the backside of Cape Cod in its heyday.  You know the Cape Cod National Seashore which is Federally protected land just like the Canal.  Seems hypocritical to me on your part.  I can't understand why there isn't just a tagging system for both Commercial and Recreational.  There is no need for a recreational fisherman to be able to keep one fish a day everyday.  The commercial fisherman on the canal is one of the least concerning problems on the canal (I am not saying they are perfect).  The facebook fisherman is what has ruined the canal.  Anyone who is there often enough cannot deny this.  Real time bite reports to thousands with their trucks already packed waiting.  That's the real shame.

Keepah I do not where you pulled that I commercially fished the back side from. I HAVE NEVER  EVER COMMERCIALLY FISHED FOR STRIPED BASS AND OR FOR THAT MATTER I HAVE NEVER EVER SOLD A STRIPED BASS IN MY OVER 70 YEARS of FISHING. NON OF MY SONS ALSO NEVER FISHED COMMERCIALLY AS WELL. SO THAT THE RECORD IS STRAIGHT ON THAT ONE :howdy: I consider myself a recreational fishermen all my life and will die as one. AS far as the sea shore goes it was the commercial selling of bass from its shores that eventually resulted in its demise along with the seals. The likes of some well known fisherman who raped these waters for years are no different then what is occurring here in the Canal . I can agree that the keeping of one fish a day for recreational is more then one family can consume long term , but the proposal I speak about makes the law enforcement more cut and dry and a whole lot easier to enforce for the whole population that fish it. 

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1 min ago, Angler #1 said:

Keepah I do not where you pulled that I commercially fished the back side from. I HAVE NEVER  EVER COMMERCIALLY FISHED FOR STRIPED BASS AND OR FOR THAT MATTER I HAVE NEVER EVER SOLD A STRIPED BASS IN MY OVER 70 YEARS of FISHING. NON OF MY SONS ALSO NEVER FISHED COMMERCIALLY AS WELL. SO THAT THE RECORD IS STRAIGHT ON THAT ONE :howdy: I consider myself a recreational fishermen all my life and will die as one. AS far as the sea shore goes it was the commercial selling of bass from its shores that eventually resulted in its demise along with the seals. The likes of some well known fisherman who raped these waters for years are no different then what is occurring here in the Canal . I can agree that the keeping of one fish a day for recreational is more then one family can consume long term , but the proposal I speak about makes the law enforcement more cut and dry and a whole lot easier to enforce for the whole population that fish it. 

Have you not said, repeatedly, that you fish with your "young friend" commercially on his boat??????????  Did you not suffer and injury at the Sandwich boat basin several years ago while going commercial fishing on said boat, in the middle of the night?????????

 

 

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Posted (edited) · Report post

1 hour ago, b-ware said:

Have you not said, repeatedly, that you fish with your "young friend" commercially on his boat??????????  Did you not suffer and injury at the Sandwich boat basin several years ago while going commercial fishing on said boat, in the middle of the night?????????

 

 

That is not the BEACH AND I recently began to fish from his boat so that allows me to still fish with  a young friend that has every commercial permit allowed under the law and I help him catch fish, BUT I DO NOT, HAVE NOT, WILL NOT EVER EXCEPT ANY MONEY TO DO SO/  . Because I fish with some one who may be a legal commercial fishermen does not , in itself make me a commercial fishermen.  So that once again I have NEVER SOLD < HELD A COMMERCIAL PERMIT FOR ANY SPECIES OF SALT WATER FISH< INCLUDING STRIPED BASS. I would like to  see you reply to the question above that began this conversation ON HOW WE CAN REDUCE THE POACHING OF THE CANAL FISHING AND INCREASE THE REGULATIONS THAT EVERY ONE INCLUDING YOURSELF WOULD LIKE TO DO. iS IT A GOOD IDEA OR NOT?

Edited by Angler #1

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I am confused? You catch fish on a commercial boat. Those fish are sold commercially, but because you don’t get paid for your help you have never commercially fished?

 

 

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As far as the original question goes, nothing can be done...………………….When the ACOE comes up with funding for law enforcement it will be the wild west.  The managers in place presently could care less about fisherman as a group as they are a small percentage of users.  As far as permits for any commercial activity they could care less and that is a fact...……...

 

If any body here feels that strongly about poaching or any other crime along the canal then confront the person and set them straight, nobody else is going to.

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The EPO know what is going on at the canal. They have increased their presence and should continue to do so. 

 

How many times can you call them and not have them show show up before you stop calling? Some people are fatigued from that experience. 

 

Plug builders get caught poaching and they still attend shows, and sell their plugs. 

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15 mins ago, ged said:

I am confused? You catch fish on a commercial boat. Those fish are sold commercially, but because you don’t get paid for your help you have never commercially fished?

 

 

When we began this topic we new that we would find some who find a way to divert the conversation and that is fine. ged I have posted my answer for both above. Unless the wording in the dictionary has changed recently that will remain my answer to the second part of this attempt to divert the topic being discussed. Thank you

How about providing your input to the original question that began this conversation. 

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There is a hysteria in the last few years about the canal. There is no need for “special” rules for the canal. That is silly. Again, Block Island, NSS on Cape Cod, Cuttyhunk, all had their runs. Easy fishing will end, and things will become “normal” at the canal, and we will talk about the good old days. 

 

Conservation should be a goal we all work towards, commercial and recreational fishermen alike. 

 

I think it Is a bad look to commercial fish on a boat, and then try to restrict a person legally fishing the canal for their 2 legal commercial fish.  $.02

 

If you want to stop commercial fishing than do it. Better to save 15 per day than 2 ;)

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27 mins ago, ged said:

The EPO know what is going on at the canal. They have increased their presence and should continue to do so. 

 

How many times can you call them and not have them show show up before you stop calling? Some people are fatigued from that experience. 

 

Plug builders get caught poaching and they still attend shows, and sell their plugs. 

 

13 mins ago, ged said:

There is a hysteria in the last few years about the canal. There is no need for “special” rules for the canal. That is silly. Again, Block Island, NSS on Cape Cod, Cuttyhunk, all had their runs. Easy fishing will end, and things will become “normal” at the canal, and we will talk about the good old days. 

 

Conservation should be a goal we all work towards, commercial and recreational fishermen alike. 

 

I think it Is a bad look to commercial fish on a boat, and then try to restrict a person legally fishing the canal for their 2 legal commercial fish.  $.02

 

If you want to stop commercial fishing than do it. Better to save 15 per day than 2 ;)

Good points, as far as the EPOs go, yes they are around more but in this state there are between 50 to 60 currently on duty.  Split that into 3 shifts, figure in days off, vacations, sick time court apprences ect. and that does not leave a lot of man power for the whole state.  With that being said how much assets can the Comm. of Mass. divert to the Federal Gov.?  The EPOs have a lot on their plate including Mass DEP enforcement, polloution detection and enforcement atvs,  boats bait shop compliance and much more.  I am on the canal 3 if not 4 morning a week from april through October and I have not seen the rampant poaching that is supposedly happening, I get more annoyed at dog walkers with 15 foot leases and walkers blocking the whole lane and then some.

I saw a guy selling tackle get busted 2 years ago (not me)  An intern from the Canal Control Office stopped, in his own car on his way to get the coffees, and said the people taking car of the rest rooms saw him selling plus, they zoomed in on him with the cameras and verified it.  This intern told him he is not supposed to sell stuff and to knock it off..  Pretty stiff punishment if you ask me...……….

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44 mins ago, ged said:

There is a hysteria in the last few years about the canal. There is no need for “special” rules for the canal. That is silly. Again, Block Island, NSS on Cape Cod, Cuttyhunk, all had their runs. Easy fishing will end, and things will become “normal” at the canal, and we will talk about the good old days. 

 

Conservation should be a goal we all work towards, commercial and recreational fishermen alike. 

 

I think it Is a bad look to commercial fish on a boat, and then try to restrict a person legally fishing the canal for their 2 legal commercial fish.  $.02

 

If you want to stop commercial fishing than do it. Better to save 15 per day than 2 ;)

GED

No one wants to stop commercial fishing , this is about saving a class of fish that has been prominently invading a particular area of the Massachusetts coast line , that is only accessible to those families who do not have a boat . These marked fish over the past decade and half have been removed from these waters and soon the canal will go the way of the rest of the coast has gone for every other species along with striped bass . It might not happen over night, but it is happening and then the average family that is restricted to walking will have another place void of fish .

If this means some sort of restriction of those who commercially fish from a boat then increase the quota they are allowed to take , but given what transpired last year the hand writing is on the wall as they left poundage unfilled , because of the lack of fish 34 inches or larger.

This reduction in my opinion is at a direct result of what has been allowed to occur inside the canal proper with all of the poaching and added burden of those who also fish commercially. One can agree that the Army Corp cares little about this , but if they were to become more involved and understand the relationship between tourist coming here to fish and the direct relationship that it has to the local economy they might be persuaded to change and reevaluate there position in managing this resource.   WE can always hope . I have seen many ups and downs with all sorts of different species over the years and if we the fisherman do not agree to make changes that helps every one for the benefit of the resource then we will have another barren place to come and ask , why was something not done when we had a chance to do so. ?  Just saying

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Posted (edited) · Report post

It is true a :airquote:"large number" of mature breeders are harvested in the canal. 

 

But let's look at the big picture:

A) the canal is 7miles long 

B) the striper coast is 500miles long (as the crow flies... it is really much longer when you measure actual coastline)

 

Here's the rec take in fish #s by state in 2016

PicsArt_01-06-02_59_54.jpg.2dcd41133a8a4d6220390658aa92ac68.jpg

 

1) Maryland: 595,000

(Yes, a bunch of males in there.. but still.)

 

2) New York: 290,000

 

3) New Jersey: 271,000

 

4) Massachusetts: 131,000

 

The canal harvest is indeed a substantial minority chunk of Massachusetts' total take, but Massachusetts and its canal do not impact the overall population nearly as much as fishermen in other states. 

 

Sometimes, I think all the hoopla over the rec take in the canal is well intended but misplaced. The true slaughtfest occurs further south, in other states.

 

 

Edited by rst3

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1 min ago, rst3 said:

It is true a :airquote:"large number" of mature breeders are harvested in the canal. 

 

But let's look at the big picture:

A) the canal is 7miles long 

B) the striper coast is 500miles long 

 

Here's the rec take in fish #s by state in 2016

PicsArt_01-06-02_59_54.jpg.2dcd41133a8a4d6220390658aa92ac68.jpg

 

1) Maryland: 595,000

(Yes, a bunch of males in there.. but still.)

 

2) New York: 290,000

 

3) New Jersey: 271,000

 

4) Massachusetts: 131,000

 

The canal harvest is indeed a substantial minority chunk of Massachusetts' total take, but Massachusetts and its canal do not impact the overall population nearly as much as fishermen in other states. 

 

Sometimes, I think all the hoopla over the rec take in the canal is well intended but misplaced. The true slaughtfest occurs further south, in other states.

 

 

rst3  the numbers taken here are as the chart may show, but what i am speaking about is a little differently looked at . One can take marked fish in some locations in great numbers from the resource they inhabit , but what occurred to those locations where the numbers swimming in the water that are marked to inhabit those location every year do not have the large populations to take from,. Those numbers will also be reduced , because these fish are no longer swimming in the waters we would normally see them in. We have stripers that swim here from several tribes and one of them is as far away as Canada , if the information Mr. Pond once did on his own dime is correct. We also have local tribes that also swim the canal from some of the local river systems, much to any ones surprise. It is the long term affects of removing these marked fish that I am speaking about that do not come down south some where .

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