john1234

Plug for a very specific application

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On ‎1‎/‎1‎/‎2019 at 4:31 PM, Sweetwater said:

I would match the hatch and not worry about casting distance. It really doesn't matter how far you can cast an sp in a cinder worm hatch. Loading a 7" redfin doesn't help if the fish are keying on green crabs. 

 

I don't know the answer to your question. This is what I do know: years ago, I was told by an old man to learn how to do things from the lazy people. Why? I asked. Because a lazy man knows how to do a job with the least effort. 

 

The lazy man approaches this situation not by putting his shoulders into casting but by finding a way to catch the fish at his feet. As he is setting up in the parking lot, he is listening. What sounds is he hearing? Smacks, slurps, swirls? Where are they? Along the grassline, a depth contour or the current line. Did action occur in a certain place?

 

A lazy man doesn't walk into the water and wade out waist deep and start casting. He moves slowly into the water and pays attention to what is moving out of his way. This might surprise you, but a lazy man starts casting before the water covers his ankles. Stripers, even larger ones, don't need more than 14-16" of water to move unobserved. A man standing knee deep on a flat may have every active fish there behind him. In that circumstance, be my guest at trying to hit the opposite shore. 

 

A lazy man knows his quarry. The better you study your foe, the fewer punches you have to throw. Stripers are no different from bass: one well placed cast is better than 10 misses. The lazy fisherman focuses on identifying that one cast. Sure, make blind casts, but search for patterns. 

 

A lazy man knows the lay of the land. I had a guy working for me who was always working when I came around the corner. The other guys thought he was a slacker. He knew the lay of the land, and hucked it when the boss was around. Translated for a striper fisherman, do you need a 60 yard cast when you could slide around and offer a different bait from 10 or 20 yards? Fly fishermen do a lot of this analysis, because they don't have the 60/80/100 yard option. 

 

But what do I know? I'm a redneck

from South Carolina. I'm not as cool as scooby, who can turn you onto tungsten weights and the most exquisite gear. All l can do is translate how a man mops a floor into a fishing strategy. 

a man who gets it , understands the meaning of patience, most knowledge comes from doing, over and over again ,  understands the meaning of the hunt, newbies take heed its not the rod reel or always the plug, find the fish first, then learn what they want, and always take advice from guys who have been there and done it, sweetwater imo buy your post you seem to get what the game and life is about, and yes in many ways im lazy too  great post

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On 1/1/2019 at 9:34 PM, HugeDinghy said:

that's on of the weirder posts that ive read here. 

There's the pot calling the kettle black. 

 

I did mean lazy and not experienced. I just highlighted the more positive examples of a lazy fisherman. The proverbial guy in the dunes with binoculars and a cell phone is a negative example of a lazy fisherman. An experienced fisherman also knows that there will be trips where he (or she) has to cast for hours to dig up a single strike, but that the fish will come because the place, moon, and bait are right and it is just a matter of time....

 

John1234, this is what I said: if you are fishing a flat that fish are cruising out of the current, you don't need to be able to cast across the fast water. Focus on the flat itself and identify why the fish are there and target them on their terms. Switching from a Bomber to a Deadly Dick to buy more casting distance is not a smart move if the fish are keying on crabs, for example.

 

Conversely, if there is a bar the fish are feeding on that is just beyond your casting range with a 2 oz pencil, upgrading to a 3.5 oz pencil is a poor choice if the forage is only 4" long. You have to look for other ways to put a bait the fish want in front of them.

 

I suggest you look for a book called Striper Moon. It is a skinny little book on fly fishing, but it is also the most concentrated clinic on finding stripers out there. I have read most of the great books on striper fishing and I learned stuff from all of them. Page for page, though, Striper Moon gives the biggest bang for the buck. 

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9 hours ago, Sweetwater said:

There's the pot calling the kettle black. 

 

I did mean lazy and not experienced. I just highlighted the more positive examples of a lazy fisherman. The proverbial guy in the dunes with binoculars and a cell phone is a negative example of a lazy fisherman. An experienced fisherman also knows that there will be trips where he (or she) has to cast for hours to dig up a single strike, but that the fish will come because the place, moon, and bait are right and it is just a matter of time....

 

John1234, this is what I said: if you are fishing a flat that fish are cruising out of the current, you don't need to be able to cast across the fast water. Focus on the flat itself and identify why the fish are there and target them on their terms. Switching from a Bomber to a Deadly Dick to buy more casting distance is not a smart move if the fish are keying on crabs, for example.

 

Conversely, if there is a bar the fish are feeding on that is just beyond your casting range with a 2 oz pencil, upgrading to a 3.5 oz pencil is a poor choice if the forage is only 4" long. You have to look for other ways to put a bait the fish want in front of them.

 

I suggest you look for a book called Striper Moon. It is a skinny little book on fly fishing, but it is also the most concentrated clinic on finding stripers out there. I have read most of the great books on striper fishing and I learned stuff from all of them. Page for page, though, Striper Moon gives the biggest bang for the buck. 

You have just babbled on some more. I'm not minimizing your thoughts or your perspective,  but your responses do not help or provide an answer to what the original post was inquiring about.  He simply provided a scenario he is presented with and asked HOW to fish it. 

 

 

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On 12/31/2018 at 11:35 AM, john1234 said:

The waters low, I mean like 2 feet low and there’s bass cruising this area. I can only connect on smaller plugs like an sp or mag darter when the waters up, I’m looking for a wakebait or barely subsurface plug that I could fish here without hanging up. I’ve tried 7” red fins but they are a bit large of a profile and don’t get touched, 5” Redfin just doesn’t cast and is on my list of plugs I have no confidence in. How would you fish this scenario? Every year it throws me for a loop as I fish a lot of flats type areas that have tons of wadable water and fish but I can’t fish it well unless the waters up a bit, Thanks........JOHN.

Honest answer....  A Flyrod with a floating line

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I know that. I am not babbling. I can't help him with how to fish it because the same fish on the same flat will be keying on different bait during the course of the season. Even during the course of a tide, different forage may be preferred. He has to figure that out. That is why I told him to watch for signs on each trip. 

 

Stripers eat everything. Plug fishermen tend to focus on presenting fish imitations which is an effective aproach most of the time, and that confidence is reiterated because they also choose places to fish that have a high likelihood of having fish as the predominant forage. 

 

We also have a human tendency to try to adapt previous knowledge to the present situation, and, across time and space, this has served us well. It is not a perfect paradigm, though, and this thread represents one of its fallacies. 

 

A flat or back bay is not the same ecosystem as an open beach or inlet. A portion of the knowledge gained on a beach is transferrable, but there are places where the two sets of knowledge don't mesh, and doubling down on a methodology that produces erratic returns will not produce better succes. Actually, what it does is produce "rules out of exceptions" because each fish caught reinforces the idea that the adjustment was for the better. 

 

I fish different water than you do, and I know that there is a period during late March when what I assume are Dobson fly larve transition to the pupa stage. During this period, in years when the larva are present in good numbers, the stripers slack off eating fish and start focusing more on the grubs. I still catch some fish, but know that there is a slow period right in there that I couldn't explain until I ran into a fly fisherman who absolutely schooled me with what appeared to be three months worth of belly button lint on a long shank hook. I haven't bought a fly rod or anything, but at least now I better understand what is happening around me. 

 

This is why I suggested John1234 read the book, though I have since read other stuff from him and it seems likely he already has. 

 

 

 

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On 12/31/2018 at 2:30 PM, Surfratiam said:

If it is a very slim profile the Rapala MaxRap casts pretty good. And they are available in 4 different lengths. Although that availability is over seas.....

 

2017_8_6_Maxrap17.jpg

Surf............if i wanted to swap trebles for inlines, what would be the appropriate size without killing this lure's action?

 

I've fished the MaxRap and have had some really nice fish on it.........i just don't want to kill its' action when changing hooks.

 

 

This lure is a GREAT sandeel imitator for sure............

 

 

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43 mins ago, yogiiiboy said:

Surf............if i wanted to swap trebles for inlines, what would be the appropriate size without killing this lure's action?

 

I've fished the MaxRap and have had some really nice fish on it.........i just don't want to kill its' action when changing hooks.

 

 

This lure is a GREAT sandeel imitator for sure............

 

 

I put back the original hooks. I caught very few fish with either larger trebles or the inline. I only fish them with the original hooks now. 

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On 12/31/2018 at 2:46 PM, VanStaalSteve said:

I’ve also done well recently with a bone or black  7” Redfin with a few ccs of water and the lip bent back( with candle flame or cig lighter). I also reduce size of belly treble to a 2/0 VMC 4X and switch out tail treble for a 4/0 VMC siwash. This allows the plug to be casted a pretty fair distance and it will swim right in the surface with a slow /med. retrieve. Great plug for boulder fields , day or night. 

95D50BA7-9A24-4D89-B9CA-322A34446EAC.jpeg

Steve how many cc of water or baby oil?  I don’t know know the general consencus for a Redfin in general guess 10-12 cc?

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1 hour ago, dannyplug1 said:

Steve how many cc of water or baby oil?  I don’t know know the general consencus for a Redfin in general guess 10-12 cc?

With this Red fin I only use about 5 or 6 ccs of water and make the following modifications as I want it to swim just on the surface. Besides loading it with water, I also bend the lip back using a cigarette lighter and heating the back of the lip. I carefully bend it back with my thumb when the plastic heats up and becomes pliable. When you do this to the plug you have to be able to test the swimming action as the lip is gradually bent back. I use my bath tube or local pond as a test tank. I also switch out the hooks and place a 1/0 VMC 4X on the belly and a 4/0 siwash on the rear. These modifications allow the Red fin to ride high in  the water on a slow to medium retrieve and cast better than the stock Red fin because it has a little bit of water in it. I don't use oil. Be sure to seal the hook hangers and nose ring with Zap-a-Gap glue. This will prevent water from leaking out. This modified Red fin works well and I use it like a danny plug.

Edited by VanStaalSteve

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On 1/7/2019 at 2:20 PM, Sweetwater said:

I know that. I am not babbling. I can't help him with how to fish it because the same fish on the same flat will be keying on different bait during the course of the season. Even during the course of a tide, different forage may be preferred. He has to figure that out. That is why I told him to watch for signs on each trip. 

 

Stripers eat everything. Plug fishermen tend to focus on presenting fish imitations which is an effective aproach most of the time, and that confidence is reiterated because they also choose places to fish that have a high likelihood of having fish as the predominant forage. 

 

We also have a human tendency to try to adapt previous knowledge to the present situation, and, across time and space, this has served us well. It is not a perfect paradigm, though, and this thread represents one of its fallacies. 

 

A flat or back bay is not the same ecosystem as an open beach or inlet. A portion of the knowledge gained on a beach is transferrable, but there are places where the two sets of knowledge don't mesh, and doubling down on a methodology that produces erratic returns will not produce better succes. Actually, what it does is produce "rules out of exceptions" because each fish caught reinforces the idea that the adjustment was for the better. 

 

I fish different water than you do, and I know that there is a period during late March when what I assume are Dobson fly larve transition to the pupa stage. During this period, in years when the larva are present in good numbers, the stripers slack off eating fish and start focusing more on the grubs. I still catch some fish, but know that there is a slow period right in there that I couldn't explain until I ran into a fly fisherman who absolutely schooled me with what appeared to be three months worth of belly button lint on a long shank hook. I haven't bought a fly rod or anything, but at least now I better understand what is happening around me. 

 

This is why I suggested John1234 read the book, though I have since read other stuff from him and it seems likely he already has. 

 

 

 

Sweet blog man!  Very, very bizarre. Forums wouldn’t exist if we all followed your rules. 

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On 12/31/2018 at 11:35 AM, john1234 said:

The waters low, I mean like 2 feet low and there’s bass cruising this area. I can only connect on smaller plugs like an sp or mag darter when the waters up, I’m looking for a wakebait or barely subsurface plug that I could fish here without hanging up. I’ve tried 7” red fins but they are a bit large of a profile and don’t get touched, 5” Redfin just doesn’t cast and is on my list of plugs I have no confidence in. How would you fish this scenario? Every year it throws me for a loop as I fish a lot of flats type areas that have tons of wadable water and fish but I can’t fish it well unless the waters up a bit, Thanks........JOHN.

sluggo or a danny would be my choice. if it was daytime i woukd be throwing pencils and littlenecks aswell

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On 12/31/2018 at 11:35 AM, john1234 said:

The waters low, I mean like 2 feet low and there’s bass cruising this area. I can only connect on smaller plugs like an sp or mag darter when the waters up, I’m looking for a wakebait or barely subsurface plug that I could fish here without hanging up. I’ve tried 7” red fins but they are a bit large of a profile and don’t get touched, 5” Redfin just doesn’t cast and is on my list of plugs I have no confidence in. How would you fish this scenario? Every year it throws me for a loop as I fish a lot of flats type areas that have tons of wadable water and fish but I can’t fish it well unless the waters up a bit, Thanks........JOHN.

I picked up some Yozuri Hydro Minnows because of the flat shallow beach problem where i'm at. They worked. 

Also might want to try a mirrolure Top Dog, just have to change the stock hooks for something bigger. 

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On 12/31/2018 at 2:30 PM, Surfratiam said:

If it is a very slim profile the Rapala MaxRap casts pretty good. And they are available in 4 different lengths. Although that availability is over seas.....

 

2017_8_6_Maxrap17.jpg

That’s a great sand eel imitator, what model size is that, a 17?

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2 hours ago, FunkyBunker said:

I picked up some Yozuri Hydro Minnows because of the flat shallow beach problem where i'm at. They worked. 

Also might want to try a mirrolure Top Dog, just have to change the stock hooks for something bigger. 

Wonder if anyone modifies an sp to wake like a Redfin and still have the castability?

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