bob_G

And yet another tick disease

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30 mins ago, bumknee said:

Bob,

Like I said, one of my labs tested positive for anaplasmosis from when she was 5 or 6 until I lost her to cancer last May when she was 10. She had several antibiotic treatments, but they eventually said, it was chronic after I complained that the vet kept saying the treatments were going to do the trick.

She also had back to back knee/ACL surgeries, so it was difficult to determine if her crying/discomfort was the anaplasmosis/inflammation of the joints or the knees-not all the time, but often enough to cause concern.

Good news on the energy level and appetite. Good luck the rest of the way. My other lab just had her annual Lymes shot this morning.

 

I have lost two labs to cancer, and I sometimes wonder if the Frontline type tick and flea treatments have a connection to the cancer.

The tick/flea treatment and cancer connection is also a concern of mine, and the other reason I never pursued oral treatment. An old vet I once knew told me of an old study. The study suggested elevated levels of pediatric cancers in homes where the dogs wore flea/tick collars.

That always stuck with me. How can something drop something as tough as a tick in it's tracks and have no impact on the animal?

Edited by bob_G

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I was born and raised in NH, but I have been in Mass since college. I still have an old country veterinarian in Vermont-across the Conn River from Claremont where my mother was until she passed a few years ago. I still have family up there, so I still go to the guy I trust when I am up there or need something like a broken tooth repaired. Old country vet who does not recommend every possible thing to raise the bill-like an honest mechanic. I miss fishing the Conn. River for  Smallies in my Dad's canoe.

I am no doctor, but there has to be a connection to cancer in dogs and tick and flea treatments.

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A few things about this, no particular order...

 

Testing positive for a tick borne disease - The 'bedside' tests used in veterinary medicine look for antibodies for the disease in question. A positive result indicates exposure, that is all. It means the dog was bitten by the tick, exposed to the disease organism and antibodies were produced. I doesn't mean that the dog has the disease in question, just exposed. It doesn't mean that the dog will get the disease. Some don't, you just can't tell which ones will and which ones won't. There are other tests that can be done (pcr) that look for the presence of the actual organism.

 

Testing positive year after year - That's due the antibodies still being present. Once dog tests positive they will likely continue to test positive for several years, possibly a lifetime. Antibody level can eventually fall to undetectable levels resulting in a negative result.

 

Anaplasma - Generally, it doesn't make most dogs sick but when it does it will usually 'look' like Lyme but some cases, it can do some weird things to the dog. All 6 of my dogs have tested positive for it, none of them have been treated. None have them have ever shown clinical signs of the disease.

 

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Drew can those who get the decease  .Is it possible to  build up antibody.s after being treated multiple times with antibiotics, so that later tick bites may not be as potent to the dog?   

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20 mins ago, Angler #1 said:

Drew can those who get the decease  .Is it possible to  build up antibody.s after being treated multiple times with antibiotics, so that later tick bites may not be as potent to the dog?   

Not really. Antibodies from prior exposure do

not seem to provide any protective benefit against future exposures. 

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5 mins ago, Drew C. said:

Not really. Antibodies from prior exposure do

not seem to provide any protective benefit against future exposures. 

same thing for humans

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Interesting statistical study.   maybe one day there will be a vaccine that works for humans and pets.

 

I had the early experimental OSP A vaccine and it did not work for me, got Lyme anyway.

Still carry the card about the vaccine serology.

5c1fa5d374af7_Lymevaccineserology.jpg.b3af1d8b8ea116e8d70ecc6f7710565f.jpg

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7 mins ago, mikez2 said:

Some studies and lots of anecdotes suggest some immunity can develop. 

https://penntoday.upenn.edu/news/strain-specific-lyme-disease-immunity-lasts-years-penn-research-finds

That was I thought I had read some where , but not all studies leave you with all the results that can be verified. It would be nice if that was the case. I ask how many times can a poor dog be bitten and infected, before his goes in a spiral down hill battle for life? 

For me the best prevention is to check and remove every tick you can , each and every time you have them out in the field . I have good friend that takes his pups out in the fields during hunting season and the first thing he does before he takes care of himself is a complete body check and even with that his pups get bitten on occasion and drop off before his scrutiny. He does it every single day and I have seen him take an hour working each pup removing ticks and burning them as they are removed. Any tick bite that was attached, gets treated

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2 mins ago, Drew C. said:

There are a lot of studies that say a lot of different things about Lyme disease...

right.  I always look to see who financed the study.    :D

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There used to be a lot of theories regarding something called Human Lyme syndrome where some symptom reoccur after effective treatment, however more recent studies show that reoccurrences are due to new tick bites. It is probably the same for dogs.

 

The other challenge is some dogs that get the disease and are asymptomatic even though the develop joint lesions that may weaken their joints. Checking the antibody levels is probable the best gage of whether you have an active infection or not after they have been exposed.

 

Tick diseases are really insidious.

 

Doxycycline is hell on the stomach whether you are a dog or a human. It sometime helps to give or take Pepcid prior to dosing.

Edited by Jay Blair

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One thing that ticked me off was when even after putting on Frontline or Advantix, and doing checks after being out, I would still find them on my dogs heads, faces, or ears. I just lost one in May to cancer, but black labs make it hard to find unless you run your hand over the tick. 

My old country vet in Vermont would always tell me to stop the treatments when there was snow on the ground-long sustained periods of cold-end of December to late Feb./early March-why put a pesticide on your dog during those months-same with Heartguard? My Mass.vets would give me a hard time, saying if the dogs came down with anything, I put my dogs at risk.

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1 hour ago, bumknee said:

One thing that ticked me off was when even after putting on Frontline or Advantix, and doing checks after being out, I would still find them on my dogs heads, faces, or ears. I just lost one in May to cancer, but black labs make it hard to find unless you run your hand over the tick. 

My old country vet in Vermont would always tell me to stop the treatments when there was snow on the ground-long sustained periods of cold-end of December to late Feb./early March-why put a pesticide on your dog during those months-same with Heartguard? My Mass.vets would give me a hard time, saying if the dogs came down with anything, I put my dogs at risk.

Had the same problem with our Newfi using Front line, for the last two years of his life we used a Soresto collar and found that the ticks would get of just as quick as they got on.  Nothing is 100% effective but we have found the Soresto pretty close.

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