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What's better than an AR-15? (NY and CT guys get in here)

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What's better than an AR-15 in a ban state?


A brand new "Other" that you can buy right now!  :wee:


I present to you ... the "Other."


What is it?


It's not a pistol.

It's not a rifle.

Right now, it does not meet the definition of "Assault Weapon" in NY or CT.  


It is this unique combo of ingredients:


An AR15 lower receiver.

A 12.5 inch barrel with a flash hider!

A collapsible pistol brace

A vertical foregrip!


This creature is on the bottom, with a plain old M4 (w/16 inch bbl on top) for comparison.


(click to enlarge - sorry crappy lighting).




Notice the shorter length?  Can you think of a time and place that would come in handy?  :wee:


A relatively new and wonderful technological development has enabled this.


What is this I speak of?  Next post in this thread, gentle reader.

Edited by fishweewee

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So this is an interesting beast.


Not too long ago, you couldn't get an AR-15 with a barrel shorter than 16 inches (or a 14.5 inch barrel with a muzzle brake permanently welded) unless it was specifically built as a pistol - OR without going through the process of getting approved by ATFE for a Short-Barreled Rifle (SBR).  It's the same paperwork you go through to buy a transferable machine gun or silencer.  Tedious process (fingerprints, pay $200 tax, fill out app, wait 6-12 months from ATFE for approval, assuming your state allows you to own one).  You're also somewhat restricted in what you can do with it - anytime you want to move an SBR, machine gun or destructive device outside of your home state, you need to get ATFE's permission (ATFE form 5320.20).


Some smart dude at SB Tactical invented the concept of a pistol BRACE that attaches to the lower receiver like a stock, but isn't technically a stock.


When this came out a few years ago, ATFE ruled it was not a stock and it was ok to put this on a firearm with a barrel length less than 16 inches, as long as an overall length for the firearm was met AND it had a vertical foregrip (very important).


The brace pictured above is an SBA3 and is collapsible just like any regular M4 SOPMOD stock.


But instead of a hard edge, it has soft rubber lips that are desgined to wrap around your wrist so you can wield an AR contraption one-handed.


The brace sits atop a milspec M4 carbine receiver extension (buffer tube).



Edited by fishweewee

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If you get one of these, It's very important to keep the vertical foregrip on the gun per ATFE ruling.


If you remove it, or install an angled foregrip (like a magpul) - you've just created a short-barreled rifle (SBR) without ATFE approval and have potentially committed a federal felony.  Keep the grip on and keep it vertical!




Why am I bringing this up?


1.  NY and CT guys are buying brand new AR-15 blasters, legally.  SAFE Act and SB1160 don't apply here.  Not sure how long this loophole will remain open - if you want a brand new AR the time to jump on this is NOW before the next state Attorney General (or state legislature) opinion further egregiously tramples on your Second Amendment rights. In NY and CT, these must have been manufactured as "Others" by an FFL before purchasing them.  One large store I talked to sold 3,000 of these in the past year.  :laugh:


2.  Everyone in non-ban states can now buy/build the equivalent of a short-barreled rifle without having to jump through the hoops mandated by the National Firearms Act for SBR's.  (check your state laws to be sure).  From a federal legal perspective, you can legally install a pistol brace on a receiver so long as it has never been attached to a rifle upper.



Edited by fishweewee

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Biggest vendors of "Other" firearms in NY and CT are Troy Defense, Delta Level Defense, Radical Firearms, New Frontier, Red Planet Arsenal etc.


Note that Troy has permanently fixed the front take-down pin with an extra-long brass detent.  It can only be removed by cutting it out - don't attempt to hammer the pin out or you'll break your lower receiver.


Basic models go for about $1,000.  I hear you can get Radical Firearms "Others" for about $600.


Flavors: 5.56, .300 AAC blackout, 6.5 Grendel, .308, 9mm etc.


And I forgot to mention - not just AR-15's.  This loophole opens up a bunch of other models (ex: FN SCAR-L).  Check out Red Planet Arsenal for details.

Edited by fishweewee

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ATFE's legal definition of an "Other" firearm:

1. Overall length of 26" or greater
2. Barrel must be > 12" (which means it's NOT a pistol)
3. Must use a forward vertical grip
4. No stock.  Must have a pistol-sized (NOT CARBINE SIZED) receiver extension (buffer tube) OR

5. An approved pistol brace.


Remember - leave the VFG on.  Don't alter the brace in any manner.

Edited by fishweewee

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35 mins ago, BrianBM said:

Whose build quality do you like? 

Grab whatever you can as long as it's got a milspec forged lower receiver that lets the mag drop free.  Nowadays, most cos are building quality lowers.  The lower is the serialized part.


The upper takes all the wear and tear - when it goes tits up you can always order a 12.5 inch upper from a quality vendor like BCM or Colt.

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Already rumblings by various groups in NY and CT that have legislation in place to outlaw these loophole guns in the beginning of the year.  Get them while you can.


As far as the brace issue is concerned, ATFE realizes it may have messed up.  This is on their website as of yesterday.  


TL/DR: "Uh, we goofed on braces, you're really not supposed to have them.  Because of our screwup, we won't be evaluating any more braces.  Go buy an SB Tactical brace."


Notice: Discontinuance of Accessory Classifications

Effective Immediately


The Firearms Technology Industry Services Branch (FTISB) classifies firearms as defined by the Gun Control Act (GCA) and National Firearms Act (NFA) based on the configuration and the design features of the firearm as submitted by members of the industry. Effective immediately, any requests for a determination on how an accessory affects the classification of a firearm under the GCA or NFA must include a firearm with the accessory already installed. Except in cases of conditional import determinations, FTISB will not issue a determination on an accessory unless it is attached to the submitted firearm.


If you have previously submitted a sample accessory for classification, FTISB will be returning your sample without classification. FTISB will contact you in the near future with further instructions to facilitate the return of your sample.


Last Reviewed December 11, 2018

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