BrianBM

Twin Drag question

Rate this topic

10 posts in this topic

A question, and a speculation, on "twin drags." This comes in response to Kilsong's preference for the IRT Dual Drag reels, but isn't limited to them.  I don't own anything with dual drags. If you do and have a comment, make sure you tell us what reel it is that you own. 

 

I have assumed, all along, that the real value of a dual-drag or twin-drag design isn't the ridiculously high loads you can place on the reel. The gain is in drag smoothness as line is taken, the diameter of the loaded spool shrinks; since the lever arm (distance from the surface of the loaded spool to the spool axle) shrinks, leverage declines, and the actual drag load increases. However contra-intuitive, you'd have to reduce the drag as the diameter of the loaded spool is reduced in order to maintain the same load on the drag. 

 

A related thought or two. First, current braids are skinnier then those of just a few years ago, never mind mono. This reduces spool shrinkage when Moby Whale climbs on, and takes off. So there's less need for twin drags then there might have been.  Second, modern reels can, with a single drag setup, exert ridiculous amounts of pressure on a fish, enough to pull me over the side of any boat, if I'm careless.

There's a Torque 300 in my basement, lined with a solid braid for jigging tuna. I never used it ... the box says it can exert 29 lbs. of pressure. Having played with it, I believe the blurb. Zcoker has remarked that he catches blacktip sharks on a Stella 8000, with a rated top drag of 60 lb.  SIXTY LBs on a surf reel?  That's wild. That last anyone would see of me, with that much drag on a surf fish, would be the drag marks of two feet and a belly. And my nose. 

 

Do those of you who fish an Accurate reel with two drags, Avet or Maxel with what they call two drags, Okuma Makaira, IRT DD or anything else, feel you're getting something for your extra bucks? 

 

I suspect that Accurate, AFAIK the first twin-drag user, shows the best result. They put a drag washer and pressure plate on each side of the spool, on their lever drags. No doubt they fenced off their design with lots of patents, as broadly written as possible. Avet has had - I suspect - to step around that arrangement. Maxel, I think, got in a patent fight with Accurate, and lost. The Makaira gets great love on Alan Tani's site, but that may or may not be because of their drag design.  Accurate's TwinSpin spinning reel did not get love from Alan Hawk in its' first iteration, and user reports are few. 

 

Ladies, Gentlemen, persons of indeterminate gender, those who are confused, the floor is open.  Kilsong, I'm going to start another thread with IRT - specific questions.

 


 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

The slammer drag system is kind of like a twin drag. Theres a washer on the top and drag system on the bottom. This can produce alot of drag and is probably the best choice of drag configuration on a spinning reel. Shimano and daiwa uses the same thing on their higher end reels I think 

Edited by Big Will

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The dual-drag hype is hot. No doubt spinning reel drags, claimed to be twin or dual drag, will multiply like rabbits. I'm a wee bit skeptical of twin drag spinners, and inquire about them only because I take Kilsong's opinions seriously. I see more room for gain in conventional lever drags, less in twin-drag star arrangements. 

 

Really, how many fish are lost because the reel had only a single set of drag washers?  David Duerr's big drum, tackle records for tarpon and such .... even that bluefin all-tackle record. 

 

So, let the gurus hold forth!  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All I know is this summer I caught some big sharks off the beach with a Siegler reel that was the size of a fluking reel yet the sharks couldn't spool it. Drags have sure changed. My main spin reels are slammer 3 s . Dura drag system on them is smooth and strong.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have an Accurate BV-300, when I set the drag at 10 lbs. there is a lot less effort to crank the handle compared to other single drag reels. I assume because 2 drags means more surface area less pressure is required against the pinion bearing so less binding.

 

Bob

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

One of biggest benefits to using a twin drag system is the fact that a twin drag handles heat much better then a single drag. A single drag lever drag can not dissipate heat has easily as a twin drag conventional reel. You also have more surface area to create friction with in order to produce drag which can provide a lower start up and a smoother drag over all. 30lbs worth of drag is not always created equally.

 

Spinners benefit in the same way when they use massive drag disks underneath the spool vs relying on small diameter drag disks at the front of the spool. Just because a spinning reel has a top and bottom drag stack does not mean it is a twin drag (which indicates that the two drag systems are equal in size), in those cases the reel simply has a dual drag, which has become very common in salt water spinning reels anymore. Dual drags and twin drags are not necessarily the same thing.

 

Whether or not a twin drag system will be beneficial on a star drag I do not know, but I will be interested to see how things work out with Accurate's twin drag star drag reel.

 

Okuma's Andros line of lever drags uses twin drags, reflecting on how the 5ii's have handled sharks and rays for me, yeah a twin drag design is superior to a single drag design which isn't nearly as smooth during a sustained long run when the drag is near maximum.

Edited by Beastly Backlash

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

I just looked at some schematics though and here's where it gets interesting. Alot of lever drag reels I have opened up have a drag washer directly on the spool with a pressure plate that pushes down on it such as the fathoms and avets. Penn internationals have two drag washers mounted on plates that press against a metal plate in the center. I've heard some say the Raptors have a dual drag but the raptor according to the schematic is setup like an international. The atd appears to have drag mechanisms on both sides of the spool arranged in the way the fathom is with one drag washer and one pressure plate on each side. I guess you could call a penn international a dual drag reel as well and even the older ones such as the international ii were arranged like this. This would make accurate the only true twin drag reel. And btw what allows new reels like the fathom to have so much drag without binding is something called a thrust bearing which is a bearing located in the left side of the spool that is designed to take sideload so that it can still spin as the shaft presses against it as the drag is tightened. 

Edited by Big Will

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Big Will, an interesting point you make.  It sounds like Accurate DID succeed in fencing off the best way to twin drag functionality, everyone else having to work around their patents. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, BrianBM said:

Big Will, an interesting point you make.  It sounds like Accurate DID succeed in fencing off the best way to twin drag functionality, everyone else having to work around their patents. 

But they didn't :) then theres the avet quad trx which has the penn type drag system on both sides. 4 drag discs in total. Which is why it gets insane drag. The 50wtrx gets over 110 pounds of drag at full. Forgot to look at that one. So in fact for a true dual twin drag avet is the only one to ever do it 

Edited by Big Will

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to register here in order to participate.

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.