squammer

Orvis Montauk Monster Fly?

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I was in Orvis the other day in my area to get a coat re-waxed and I had to check out the fly fishing gear (first time browsing fly fishing gear in-person). I could not help but notice the GIANT flies they are selling called the "Montauk Monster". They came in black, chartreause, and white/red. These things were the size of my hand -- no joke. I attached an image of one from the web but it's hard to see their size because the photo lacks a sense of scale.

 

Anyone here use these flies? They seem so big that they would be a pain to cast...

1X4RSF4redwht_lg.jpg

Edited by squammer

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That's ostrich,compresses a lot when wet which makes it easy to cast.

As long as that's a tight head it shouldn't be too difficult to cast.I cast stuff bigger'n that on my 8 wt on a regular for SMB.

If I'd've tied it I woulda trimmed more hair out to clear the gap and left more on top for the shape.

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15 mins ago, slip n slide said:

That's ostrich,compresses a lot when wet which makes it easy to cast.

As long as that's a tight head it shouldn't be too difficult to cast.I cast stuff bigger'n that on my 8 wt on a regular for SMB.

If I'd've tied it I woulda trimmed more hair out to clear the gap and left more on top for the shape.

I looked at their lot of these flies and each one was slightly different -- I don't think they have tight tolerances on tying this fly...

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4 hours ago, squammer said:

I looked at their lot of these flies and each one was slightly different -- I don't think they have tight tolerances on tying this fly...

They do not tie them. They probably come from Africa.

 

^..^

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On 11/20/2018 at 5:57 PM, Mike Oliver said:

Squammer

 

fly tying is,not same as aerospace .

 

Mike

 

 

Happy Holidays Mike.

 

I grew up in Roscoe, NY & assure you that history would contradict what commercial piece rate enterprises are displaying in retail fly bins today.

 

Orvis sources flies primarily  from Kenya, Sri Lanka, Trinidad & other countries with strong hand made textiles presence. They can teach a group of seamstress various patterns, provide them with materials & pay 3 to 5 cents apiece for the labor. (then ship them bulk to their fulfillment D/C & mark them up tremendously)

 

Side Fact: Flies & Materials both, as categories, provide 800 to 900 Basis Points - making selling them almost as profitable as selling a cup of coffee.

 

With smaller flies, tolerances are generally good among accepted lots the ladies turn in, but they may vary significantly from tier to tier - even though each tier turns in lots of flies that are nearly identical. This is due to lack of standardization from fly tier to fly tier and the concept is perpetuated due to volume. 

 

In the region I grew up the primary Fly Shop was run by Walt & Winnie Dette. Their bins were chock-full during season. Walt was able to create a method of standardization and production fly tying on a small scale that was rivaled only by the House of Harrop. 

 

Every single fly in every single bin was literally identical. This is primarily because of one critical step that Walt implemented. All materials were meticulously sized before production tying began..

 

The Dette's operation was not only capable of fully stocking fly bins in an extraordinarily busy tourist town "mom & pop" shop ( literally sold from their living room in their house which was converted into their Fly Shop) but they also filled substantial orders from their fly catalog.

 

When you combine this sizing step with immense skill, such as the Dette Method, & countless hours of repetitive movement & high motor memory, standardization of size & silhouette is achieved.

 

Walt brought German precision & his mechanical engineering skill to the operation & great attention to proportion & detail was evident in every fly they produced.  They were sparsely tied works of art, each fly of a given size was identical to the next.

 

Today's high-volume fly shops do pretty well considering 99% of them don't pre-measure materials prior to commencing production.

 

With the smaller fly patterns on a modern shop''s bins, variations are less evident to the untrained eye. However if you compared an Orvis bin today with a Dette bin of lore, the differences would be astounding and noticeable immediately. 

 

Today's fly bins also feature numerous Larger Salmon, Tropical & General Saltwater patterns. Differences from fly to fly is more easily visible due to the much larger fly & hence readily apparent. 

 

Pre-measuring materials is also more challenging & less applicable with many Saltwater patterns. However, great attention to proportions & production tying techniques can go a long way towards helping standardize. As can awareness of dimensions which can also help.

 

Fly Tying actually can be very precise.  It just mostly isn't today. 

 

-Cary

 

 

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Cary thanks for that informative post.

 

To get anything made needs a process and Dette’s Engineer in him shines through.

 

It does not matter if it is a fly or a car. Now products like flies are more difficult as variations will exist in the birds from which materials are taken. It takes a lot of effort to get uniformatity even in a very small enterprise.

 

Salt water not easy for me to get uniform dead ringer Deceivers time after time. The issues are bucktail hair length and quality and saddle hackle feathers.

But it just does not matter at all. They all look and fish like a Deceiver should.

 

Fly tying  is an art to just like fine art. Can an Artist working in any median replicate exactly his work if he was to repeat it a hundred times. Does it matter?

 

Dont know about you but find it very difficult to want to,fish flies I have not tied myself. It is such a big part of the sport.

 

Mike

 

 

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On 11/20/2018 at 3:16 PM, squammer said:

I was in Orvis the other day in my area to get a coat re-waxed and I had to check out the fly fishing gear (first time browsing fly fishing gear in-person). I could not help but notice the GIANT flies they are selling called the "Montauk Monster". They came in black, chartreause, and white/red. These things were the size of my hand -- no joke. I attached an image of one from the web but it's hard to see their size because the photo lacks a sense of scale.

 

Anyone here use these flies? They seem so big that they would be a pain to cast...

1X4RSF4redwht_lg.jpg

That's a Lou Tabory Snake Fly (Large) ... I guess they don't want to pay Lou ... hence it's a Montauk Monster Fly.  Also reminiscent of his Slab fly,

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14 hours ago, CaryGreene said:

Fly Tying actually can be very precise.  It just mostly isn't today. 

 

-Cary

 

 

At the end of the day, do you really think that saltwater fish care all that much?  I understand trout or salmon flies are different story, but the original flies being discussed in this thread are saltwater.

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Ferret

 

 

Do we attribute more brains to FW fish. Salmon flies don’t represent any thing that may be bred in a river mostly yet on their day they get ate.

I think that if we have a pattern that it is not a bad thing to try and tye close to it or we lose reference to it.

Way way more important is fishing on front of fish that are wanting to eat.

I am with you does any fish care. They are not able to refer to a dictionary of flies. If we have not spooked them and we can reach them there is a chance we can catch them. Sometimes we may have to change a pattern to get bit and that’s part of the fun. Even in FW with so called selective Trout my money is on stealth and presentation before fly pattern although it mostly makes sense to cast something that looks about right.

I honestly think many kid themselves. Do we really think that thread  hair and hackle  are dead ringers for the real thing.

But it makes for discussion. and diversion as winter sets in. Our Trout season draws to an end in a couple of days fly in salt to. Time to catch an aeroplane.

 

mikey

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