Gumption

In Braided Line Hell

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47 posts in this topic

21 hours ago, Gumption said:

I am in Cabo for 2 weeks, and have been surf fishing every morning for 3-4 hours...less lately because of the problems I am having.

1st rod is setup with a Penn Torque II spinning reel on a Penn 12' rod. Reel has 65 pound PowerPro braid, and I have been switching off using this rod with an other depending on the weight of the lure I am throwing. For 3 days of use...flawless. Then one morning I started getting knotted loops as I was casting...massive knotted loops. I have been throwing either a 3 or 4 ounce Robertson Ranger on this rig, and things got so bad that I had to peel off over 100 yards on line until a knotted loop developed at the end of a 350' cast...and that was the end of that rig to be able to be used. 

2nd rod setup is a Diawa Saltist 6500H spinning reel on a Penn 10' rod with 40 pound PowerPro braid. Using this rig to throw 1.5 - 3 ounce lures. Same scenario initially...things were going flawless...caught 2 Dorado on consecutive casts 1 morning until the line started breaking when casting. Not talking about the knot coming undone...talking about made a cast, lure is in flight, and then poof the line breaks while in the air before the lure even hits the water and it wasn't due to something knotting up on the spool stopping the line from coming out. To make a long story short I have lost almost $200 worth of lures because of the line just breaking. This morning I was reeling in a top water, and the lure was about 15' from sure and poof...the line breaks. I could see the lure floating in the surf with braid still tied to it. When I look at the line after reeling it in the end of the line does not have a clean cut/break...almost looks like the line broke from exceeding the strength of the line.

Now in both cases I am putting a lot of ass into getting the lures out to where the fish are. In both cases I am using fluorocarbon leaders to handle the shock. 

So I have a few questions...

Does braided line degrade with saltwater use? 

What would all of a sudden start to cause knotting in braided line on a spinning reel when it was fine for a few days before?

Why would 40 pound braid start to break off randomly but was fine for almost a week before? I checked for nicks on the spool, bail arm, guides, etc. and everything is nice and smooth. 

Just bad spools of PowerPro? 

Any ideas or input would be appreciated...

A few years ago I went through the same thing with power pro 50lb. New line installed correctly on a conventional via pro winder. It would clean break for no apparent reason. I thought it might be the guides so I inspected them and took it to my rod builder father in law and he also cheesecloth all the guides. It happened at least 3 times, all new braid each time. Big fish were around and lost some decent 20-30lb estimate fish and wasn't about to chance losing my 50. I switched to suffix 832 green and haven't had any problems.

 

Maybe I'm an idiot, but I'v never been wholly convinced about the way the line is put on, winder vs putting it on yourself. In my head after a few casts it's the same thing in the fished area of the line. But like I said I'm an idiot at times.

 

Good luck

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Fished this morning with no issues. Paid a lot of attention to the things that were suggested as suspect, and did not see anything out of the norm. Everything held up, and more so when I had about a 15 pound Jack on. Put 3.5 hours in this morning...and everything went just like it should have. Thanks for everyone's help!

Edited by Gumption

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20 hours ago, R.R. Bridge Fisher said:

Stopped using PP and started using suffix832.I get a few seasons out of it if I flip over. 

No problems. Never going back. 

Close the bail by hand making sure line goes on tight is a must. 

Same.

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And pinch line in between fingers until you feel,contact with your lure. Once in a while feel the spool, if it feels spongy. A wind knot is going to happen, it should always feel tight. If spongy find a place you can hook too. A piece of wood,  tree or fence and walk it off and reel back on tight.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Batman67
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There's no way 40 lb braid of any kind should be breaking in your hands when you are tying a double Uni knot. Sounds like either extremely worn or bad line to me. No wonder you are getting line breaks. One way line gets beaten up like that is from cracked guides but it sounds like you've verified that that isn't the problem. Another way is if the braid is rubbing over sharp rocks or reefs; no braid will survive that for long. Mono would hold up better to abrasion it that is in fact what is happening.

 

If that isn't what is happening, my suggestion is to respool with a high quality 50 lb braid (a good all-around lb-test for surf casting), have it machine wound, and make sure it isn't filled to the top of the spool. That should solve most of the wind knot and tangle problems, unless the guides on your rod are extremely wide. Generally that is not the case unless you are using an old fiberglass rod.

 

Personally I was never happy with Power Pro above 20 lb test, but rarely have had any problems below that strength.

 

I would go with a higher quality 50 lb braid like Sufix 832 or Jerry Brown Line One if you can find it. PP in 20 lb or below is still ok for the schoolie rod, beach plugging on purely sand beaches, or freshwater.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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A few observations based on my own experience (in the surf almost all ways casting lures long distance):

  • There is definitely an optimal range for the ratio of braid diameter (forget BS for now) to spool diameter.  When this gets out of whack, problems ensue.  Thicker line off a too-small spool seems to bang and pile up against the first guide or two as it over runs before settling down though the guide train.  This may weaken the braid due to the repeated impacts.
  • Any problems with how the spool is shimmed will also show up more quickly with thick line, varying line tension and big casts.
  • The guide train is important, a poorly designed layout won't necessarily give problems at moderate distances / relaxed casting style but will show up when the rod is pushed for distance.  I don't believe Regiment guide trains are optimised for distance.
  • 65lb PP probably has a true breaking strain over 90lb.  What is the maximum pressure that can be applied with the tackle described - it is probably no more than 15-20lbs so the 'excess' breaking strain adds no useful value. 
  • Down in my neck of the woods (Southern Africa), long distance surf lure fishing has been enormously refined because of our local conditions often demand it.  The heaviest line typically in use for heavy surf spinning is a PE4, true BS around 50lb (likely sold as '30lb' in the US).  8-10k reels (Shimano sizing) are used.  This would be for GTs or other caragnids in bad areas and would represent a balance between achieving good distance and being able to apply enough pressure.  Rods used have specially designed guide trains.  The Assassin Sierra 11' 2XH is probably the top of this heap.
  • I've not used the Roberts but have seen video and have some experience with using similar metals.  Compared to our locally designed lures (GT Ice Cream, Wake plugs etc) they seem to take awhile to get on top and are 'bouncy' in the sense that they introduce slack as they hop which may mess with line lay.  Our plugs provide relatively constant pressure when retrieved correctly and get on top within 3 or 4 turns of the handle in normal conditions.
  • If there is a big shorebreak (I've seen video of some crazy shore breaks in that general area), it can affect casting action as you have to run forward, make a quick, choppy cast and skedadle before the next wave gets you.  This also can create bad line flow which can damage braid.

In summary, it looks like some or all of the factors referred to above have resulted in your perfect braid storm...

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These issues seem to plague the spinning reel braid user, the wind knots and the break offs. PP especially with the latter. I had a spinning reel once upon a time and switched to the original Fireline. I never had another issue with those wind knots. 

But fwiw, the line comes off in a bunch like that, imo, the line is soft on the spool. When your line is on the spool it can't feel soft. What I mean by this, if you squeeze the spooled line between your thumb and index finger, that spooled line should be hard.   

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On 11/17/2018 at 0:22 AM, Gooch said:

A few years ago I went through the same thing with power pro 50lb. New line installed correctly on a conventional via pro winder. It would clean break for no apparent reason. I thought it might be the guides so I inspected them and took it to my rod builder father in law and he also cheesecloth all the guides. It happened at least 3 times, all new braid each time. Big fish were around and lost some decent 20-30lb estimate fish and wasn't about to chance losing my 50. I switched to suffix 832 green and haven't had any problems.

 

Maybe I'm an idiot, but I'v never been wholly convinced about the way the line is put on, winder vs putting it on yourself. In my head after a few casts it's the same thing in the fished area of the line. But like I said I'm an idiot at times.

 

Good luck

Also recommend throwing some electrical tape on the spool to start to give the braided something to bite onto

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braid changes all the time

with use and water that is fished

it is never reliable and constant

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With all the solid advice I hope this isn’t too basic: if you are imparting “action” by jigging/pumping the rod, loops and slackness can easily occur. 

Several guys have already pointed to the need to keep the line tight - I just wanted to provide and example of how the line could become loose. 

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Not Gumption's main problem, but I think nylon might be better leader material than fluorocarbon. I think nylon is better as a shock absorber.

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I have fished 65 lb power pro on all my set ups from day 1. Never have them spooled at any shop. You must close the bail manually and you have to pinch the braid hard between your fingers till tension  is picked up.

 

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