Toki

Lure casting distance issue & question

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Hello,

 

I have a Penn Allegiance II rod (medium power, extra fast action, max 1oz lure rating, max 50lb braid) with a Spinfisher VI 6500LL on it. It's a 7.6ft long rod. 

 

Using 20lb braid and a 30lb fluoro leader to cast spoons for spanish mackerel. Using 1.5oz spoon.

 

Issue: My casting distance is too short. Everyone else tossing spoons was getting nearly 4x the distance of mine. 

 

I've been told I need more weight to toss further but adding weights to the main line just before the leader results in the spoon spinning in mid-air and the hook grabbing the main line... a lot. I can't put the weight on the leader or it affects how the spoon rotates. 

 

Tried a 2oz spoon but the results were not much better. 4 and 5oz spoons are hard to find and they be expensive. 

 

Was also told to lower my main line to 12lbs keeping my leader at 30lb... and this should allow my rod to toss my 1.5oz spoons far. I have not tested this yet (12lb braid arrives in a few days!!). 

Other advice I received was to buy 4/0 weighted treble hooks (which I did) and to just replace the hooks on my current spoons ... this should add about half an ounce of weight without affecting performance. 

 

So my questions are:

 

1- This rod says the lure rating is 1oz max. How does one set up a 1oz spoon to cast far in this rod? 

 

2- My planned spoon rig setup: 

 

12 lb braid Main line ----------50lb swivel----snap on swivel connected to the 50lb swivel at the snap on end ----- 4ft 30lb fluoro leader line connected to the swivel end of the snap on swivel -----------1/2 oz bullet weight----1oz to 2oz spoon using weighted treble hook. 

 

This I think would have the swivel and snap on swivel unusual connection allowing me to change leader and its attached hook/lure conveniently while at the same time allowing me to connect the line directly to lure/hook and avoid mackerel being spooked by the presence of something other than the lure. The bullet weight should not interfere with the spoon rotating action and the weighted treble hook should add a little more throw power behind it. 

 

Of course, all swivels and snap ons are black in color.. nothing flashy or bright.  

 

3- Does lowering the main line lb rating really help? If it was mono I'd understand but braid is so thin I can't see how going down from 20 to 12 lb makes any difference in this scenario. 

 

4- My reel currently has: about 10yds of 14lb mono at the start (used to provide the braid line with better grab on the reel) and 300yds of 20lb braid. The reel still has a good 300yds worth of space for braid .... would there be any problem if I connect the new 12lb braid via a line to line knot to the 20lb and just spool the 300yds of 12lb line over it? Or should I just remove all the 20lb braid off the reel and put in the 12lb braid instead?

 

Any advice appreciated! 

 

Thank you!

Edited by Toki

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Toki

 

Your set up is to me a bit of a mis-match.

1. Your rod is a light 7'6" rated to MAXIMUM 1oz, whilst it could probably cast a little more weight, you are asking for trouble throwing 2oz.

2. Reel is way to big and heavy (obviously new and I doubt you want to hear this)

3. Sounds like the reel is way, way under-filled "The reel still has a good 300yds worth of space for braid" an under-filled reel is a distance killer.

 

Post a photo of the spool with line so I can see just how much space is still available for line.

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The length of the rod is going to limit how far you can cast, regardless of how much weight you're casting. There is a limit to how far a rod can cast and the length of that rod is a big part of that. 

For salt at 1 oz, I usually use about 9 feet. I can get good distance with a 9 foot MH rod for a 1 - 2 oz spoon. This is paired with about a size 4000 reel. That'll accomodate 20 pound braid just fine. 

Edited by TroutGhost

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I use a 2500 and 3000 size reel with 20 lb J braid, filled to like 1/8" inch top of spool for throwing 1-2 oz, and 9' rod. Your reel is way too big and heavy for what you are throwing. Most people use reels too big for what they are throwing...see it all the time. You can catch/handle some pretty large fish with reels out today in the smaller sizes and not have to have all that extra weight. Plus, your 7'6" will not get you the distance no matter the set up you use, as TroutGoast just stated....longer rod  and smaller reel filled up to max.

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My 7 foot 6 lamiglas can cast a Gibbs Little Neck one and a quarter inch popper just as far as my 9ft lamiglas and the same for a two and a half ounce custom pencil. They are both rated 1 to 4 which means that is the weight that loads the rod which is what is doing the work. If the rod can't load more than 1 oz it can't throw more than 1 oz for any distance it just doesn't have the power. Technique has a lot to do with it but you need a rod that can handle more weight and you will get more distance. Wind will cut my smaller rods distance down some  but for the most part on the North Shore both rods get me where I need to be. Your Rod is only rated to throw a 1 oz plug and that is what's holding back your distance but that's just my opinion PS all my rods are set up with 30 lb Power Pro and 40 lb monofilament leaders

Edited by TheKnot

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11 hours ago, Toki said:

The reel still has a good 300yds worth of space for braid .... would there be any problem if I connect the new 12lb braid via a line to line knot to the 20lb and just spool the 300yds of 12lb line over it?

So no one noticed this?

The reel is half empty.

Post a photo.

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2 mins ago, ZAFisher said:

So no one noticed this?

The reel is half empty.

Post a photo.

I noticed, and I see you did. The OP may not be aware he is killing his casting distance as a result.

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A few things - 

- a lure rod has an optimum casting weight, and it might be that you are overgunning it? That inhibits recovery and distance.

- depends how big your rings are obviously, but i use a Shimano 3000 sized reel for my 7'3". Could be your spool is too big for rings?

- as others have said, sounds like your spool is underfilled. Wants to be about 1-2mm below lip.

- sounds like you are using too thick braid? I use 50lb braid on a beach caster, with 5-7oz, and it is a powerful rod.

maybe nearer 15lb braid mainline?

 

But here is another big thing to look at - your lure turning over and snagging your mainline in the early stages of the cast.

this needs attention, and I suspect could be your biggest problem.

IMO there are only two ways this can occur -

1/ the most likely, you are overdoing your lead hand pull down, which makes for erratic loading mid action. Your description sounds like it is momentarily overloading for your load size and recovering again before release. This results in a bit of slack like and bounced lure.

hard to explain, so hope that makes sense.

if that sounds right, moderate your casting action. If you try to slow it down, does it fly better?

2/ if that is not the issue, then this might be - an oversized leader knot. This can snag in the rings, particularly in the triangle of the rings, on release, momentarily slowing the lure, bouncing it back onto the line.

Braid is very supple and needs to be tight as it is coming off the spool and through the rings.

i would advise either no leader, a leader outside of your rod rings at all times, or a braid leader (in slightly higher BS - so, say 15lb mainline, use 25lb braid leader) to full rod length and a few times round spool pre-release.

if you absolutely insist on using a mono leader inside rings, maybe consider a PR or FG knot, which is much smaller and less likely to snag on rings.

 

hope some of that helps?

good luck

 

Edited by Lipslicker

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Ill post a photo tomorrow. Thank you all for the info. I didn't know a half empty reel could affect casting like that. HMMMM

 

Until then... will linking the 12lb braid to my existing half-full reel of 20lb braid be ok? Or is it better to just remove all the 20lb and put only 12lb in there? By putting 300yds or so of 12lb I don't think the 20lb line will ever leave the spool honestly... but it will fill it up so that the 12lb goes to the edge near max capacity. 

 

 

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35 mins ago, Toki said:

Or is it better to just remove all the 20lb and put only 12lb in there?

You will end up with an even emptier spool.

What 12lb braid are did you purchase?

 

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If you’re relatively new to this stuff, I think you should keep it simple. As such, my suggested choices would be as follows:

 

  • Use the same rod and reel. Pull off the braid.  Spool up a whole bunch more mono. Eyeball it. The put the braid back on. See if this helps by getting the spool more full. Keep in mind you have to apply pressure to the line while reeling it into the spool so that it’s firm to the touch. Otherwise, you’ll have major problems. 

 

  • Still same reel and instruction same as above. But Get a heavier rated rod - even if you have to get a cheaper budget type rod. It’ll still help because the guides will be larger with a 6500 sized reel. This is probably how I’d go since You’re throwing a heavy spoon. 

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On November 11, 2018 at 2:52 AM, ZAFisher said:

Toki

 

Your set up is to me a bit of a mis-match.

1. Your rod is a light 7'6" rated to MAXIMUM 1oz, whilst it could probably cast a little more weight, you are asking for trouble throwing 2oz.

2. Reel is way to big and heavy (obviously new and I doubt you want to hear this)

3. Sounds like the reel is way, way under-filled "The reel still has a good 300yds worth of space for braid" an under-filled reel is a distance killer.

 

Post a photo of the spool with line so I can see just how much space is still available for line.

ZA hit every pertinent point here.....especially the 1/2 filled spool.

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That's a big reel for 7'6" might want to drop to the 5500 size or get a longer rod. 

Also sounds under-spooled like the others said. Specs say 345 yds of 15lb mono capacity, so 20 lb braid you would need over 500 yds to fill it. 

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@ work now , when I return i'lll post the pic. 

 

I have two rods for the reel... 

 

7.6 ft long, Penn Allegiance II (medium power, extra fast action, max 1oz lure rating, max 50lb braid)

and

10ft long, Penn Batallion (medium-heavy power, fast action, max 5oz lure rating, 80lb braid max). 

 

I have no issues with the 10ft rod but I rather wanted to use the more sensitive and shorter rod for jetty fishing for mackerel.. the 10ft is for surf/bigger fish using bait. 

 

The braid im getting is Sougayilang 12lb braid 547yds. I was just wondering if there'd be any trouble just using a line to line knot linking the 20lb to the 12lb braid and not have to remove the 20lb (pain in the neck) given I would not be getting even close to ever having the 20lb line going out of the reel at that point. :p 

 

 

Edited by Toki

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