The Graveyard Shift

Night Striper Inlet Fly Pattern

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31 posts in this topic

2 hours ago, RedGreen said:

Oops. My brain failed me. He's still around, I suppose it's a figure of speech. I'll correct my post. 

No worries RG. Just thought I had missed something. Sad enough when we heard of Lefty's passing.

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10 hours ago, The Graveyard Shift said:

I am torn between a muddler style head or a formed EZ body head for this fly.  May try one of each.

 

These tails blow rabbit strips away on action you should try them for your walleye flies.  You need to use the clips though so you can change them out.

Muddler heads makes more "noise" as they swim.The EZ-body heads look cool but I find the bulkier deer hair outfishes it by a significant margin.

Collars of flashabou or polarflash add a lot of noise and flash.I tie them sorta like the skirts on muskie lures so the go at least half-way back on the fly. A fat-ass bunny strip, estaz grande body and a collar of flashabou and some brass eyes on a jig hook is a go-to fly when I'm fishing at night.Good most of the time too,esp in rough surf or strong flows.Same thing w/ the afore-mentioned bucktail muddler head if I wanna fish closer to the surface or using a fast sinker and wanna keep the fly off the bottom.

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11 hours ago, The Graveyard Shift said:

I am torn between a muddler style head or a formed EZ body head for this fly.  May try one of each.

 

These tails blow rabbit strips away on action you should try them for your walleye flies.  You need to use the clips though so you can change them out.

Back when I lived somewhere with salters I used to do really well with a muddler tied with densly packed, then trimmed soft hackle feathers. I'd wind them on, palmer I guess, using 3 or 4 then trim exactly like a regular muddler head. The feather head sunk better than deer hair and I think the fibers give a little funky movement as well as pushing some water. Was very effective for salters, forgot all about it when I moved away from there...

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12 hours ago, The Graveyard Shift said:

100% agree on risks of casting that fly regularly in the dark with number one fear a hit to the back of the head.  I appreciate feedback that is part of why I posted it.

 

I am fishing this on a 500 grain sink tip. The current is very intense and since I was fishing in dark I thought I was getting down far enough because I was catching fish occassionally.  But if I throw heavy jigs on spin gear I hook up a lot more.  I went back in daylight and had a friend spot (very clear water) where my beast fleye was on the swing much to my surprise way only about halfway down in water column (8-10 feet deep) and it started rising as soon as swing was initiated. So I realized I need a fly a lot of internal weight in addition to the sinking line because I want it hanging in the 20-22' depth range.

 

Right now I am struggling with deciding how to tie the profile I want with less drag to get down and stay down.  I am thinking hollow tie with a mesh head front  shaped to track well.

 

I also would rather loses flies on bottom then snag sinking lines in rocks which is a real problem in this area.  so figured want fly tracking at or below the sink tip.  hook pointing up should help as I tick jigs along this bottom regularly.  Honestly if you are not losing a jig or or two on every trip you are not in the strike zone at this place so losing these flies is going to happen probably 5-8 flies per season

 

 

 

 

 

 

I often have a similar issue. I fish a ton of hollows and beasts on a full sinking line, and my only issue is occasionally not getting deep enough. I've hid tungsten cones and lead eyes behind ties but it's really not as heavy as I'd like. However, I think the poster's name was RedGreen(?) recently posted in the fly tying section what was sort of a beast off a worm hook and I'm really thinking that some very heavy wire that's then epoxied over for durability will do the trick. I just gotta track down some worm hooks with a long enough tying platform and then get started on it. 

Edited by Ftyer

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Yep, that was me!

 

Those worm hook hollows can be tied on as they are; they're just cramped. I believe Ahrex makes an offset shank worm hook with a longer section specifically for tying on but from what I can tell it's only marginal and the wire isn't as heavy as the gamakatsus. For these hooks where you have a lot of wire they flex easily so you want the thickest wire you can get. Fortunately you have tons of space in the belly of the hook for weights. It would be impossible to make that fly spin if you added weight down there. 

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On 10/26/2018 at 9:16 AM, The Graveyard Shift said:

 

I am fishing this on a 500 grain sink tip. The current is very intense and since I was fishing in dark I thought I was getting down far enough because I was catching fish occassionally.  But if I throw heavy jigs on spin gear I hook up a lot more.  I went back in daylight and had a friend spot (very clear water) where my beast fleye was on the swing much to my surprise way only about halfway down in water column (8-10 feet deep) and it started rising as soon as swing was initiated. So I realized I need a fly a lot of internal weight in addition to the sinking line because I want it hanging in the 20-22' depth range.

GY, you know I admire what you're doing, both with flies and fishing. And said...keep going. But your problem isn't flies, it's getting down 20' when the Canal's moving 4 kts.  :kiss:

 

 

Edited by patchyfog

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4 hours ago, patchyfog said:

GY, you know I admire what you're doing, both with flies and fishing. And said...keep going. But your problem isn't flies, it's getting down 20' when the Canal's moving 4 kts.  :kiss:

 

 

Patchy in 4kts everly little bit helps.  But yeah its a very particular problem I am trying to solve.  Not a typical striper problem

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So I decided I wanted a bigger wiggle tail so I made my own out of a black theraband.  I finished fly off with four hollow ties of squimpish hair black with green flash blend and a mesh conomo special head.

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3 hours ago, bonefishdick said:

How are you going to fish this ?

When I envisioned making this fly I was looking for something that could act like a bucktail jib that I could delivery with fly casting for deeper inlets where I plan to use the two hand 10 weight or 12 weight rods with TH OH casts to deliver.  It will either be delivered on a T-14 or T-17 sink tip.  An example of one of these inlets would be the Cape Cod Canal, but I also fish smaller ones closer to my home and on the Cape too.  These are areas that I fish with bucktails, jig with plastic paddle tails, or internally weight swimbaits of the surfcasting rod.  All hits require getting deep and basically swimming lure or fly just above bottom structure to avoid a hangup.  The shallowest is 15 feet deep and the deepest is 35 feet deep.  The ability to change out the tail is very important as it allows me to fine tune how fast the lure sinks which allows you to make fine tuning adjustments which will allow me to keep it in the perfect glide just above the rocks.  I do this with bucktails by changing to different size and shape otter tails so that is why I took the attractor tail system and incorporated into this fly so I can tweak using different fly line sink rates and tail configuration while keeping size and weight of fly consistent to fine tune depth I present the lure at.

 

However I am also going to try it in shallower systems like estuaries on a floating line.  Some times the bass will only take flies right on the bottom in these areas and when I sense that is what is going on I will give this fly a shot on a long leader off the floating line.  All my other night flies are focused on top water or upper 1/3 of water column and I wanted a dedicated bottom 1/3 of water column go to fly pattern other than an up-sized clouser, which is also a good option for people trying to fish deep.  I found that if I sink a Conomo Special or a Beast Fleye close to the bottom in the marsh since the hook is not pointing up it hangs up on chunks of the collapsed sod bank and all kinds of other junk.  So I wanted a large profile jig fly for fishing near the bottom.    I am also hoping this fly's tail action will give off a similar vibration signal as an american eel swimming in the marsh at night to attract big bass to a big potential meal.

 

I am going to make one of these in an alewife coloring for use when that magic first hour of light window occurs and the bass prefer the herring flies as close to bottom as possible.  As I mentioned above the Conomo is a great fly and my go to alewife imitator, but I found the bass wanted it close to the bottom once sun is coming up and it hangs up a lot due to hook point on belly of fly.  This jig alewife fly will glide along bottom without hanging up.  When used this way I will change the tail from the curly tail to the one that looks like a large tail fin of a herring called the "Double Tail".  The double tail will move furiously like a herring's tail pumping to swim on a fast retrieve along the bottom.  It should be a dead ringer for herring that move along the bottom of marsh channel edge or sod back when the sun comes up and they are trying to get to the estuary.

 

 

Edited by The Graveyard Shift

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Well I did not get an videos, but finally got that new fly out to a real casting and swim test.  Due to limited time I took to to a spot I like 10 mins from my house which is a sharp bend and point where the salt-marsh opens up into a larger bay.  I went at high tide so the channel was about 14 feet deep (Low tide its 5 feet deep and it was a 9' high tide this day).  Because this is a pretty shallow spot compared to where I will normally fish the fly I used a floating line to try and mimimize bottom hangups with a longer leader than I normally use at 9 feet of 25lb flourocarbon.  The wind was a constant 5-8mph with occasional gusts of 10-15mph.  So pretty typical for the conditions I run into for wind. This is a spot I will fish this fly during the spring run so I was getting good data for May too.

 

Here is my review of how it went:

Castability: When using my Thomas and Thomas 11'2" with a 10 weight Rio Outbound floating line with a TH OH casting method I was able to consistently cast this fly in the 60-70 foot range.  I measured by after making a cast setting rod down then hand pulling in the entire line and fly.  I then measured the total length of fly line.  I ignored the length of the leader because honestly things were landing sort of ugly, but no tangles or knots in the leader.  When I changed my cast to take advantage of the wind I was able to get the fly out to 81 feet which really surprised me.  When throwing directly into the head wind I was in the 40-50 foot range.  I had read the European style attractor tails have a lot of wind resistance and you can hear it when casting the fly.  Into the wind was not a lot of fun but could throw far enough this will be fish-able in most ares I frequent at night in wind.   I tried throwing this on my 9 foot 9 weight with a traditional SH double haul approach and it was a horrible experience that I will never repeat.  So my take is if you want to throw this on a single hand rod you probably need a 11 or 12 weight rod.

 

Fishability: As I was hoping by changing through the different tail sizes and shapes you can dramatically impact the fall rate and action of how this moves underwater.  I am going to make a couple my own custom tail shapes out of therabands and test them in the next round of testing.  I can say that using that extra large custom wiggle tail this is going to be a killer combo.  The fly sinks head first with tail undulating an insane amount on a slack line and on a steady two hand retrieve it glides pauses and glides again. This slow gliding presentation with subtle starts and stops to activate the jig rattles really looked killer.  I also found that if used the XXL thin wave tail and fished the fly on a faster jerkier retrieve it has an amazing jigging/darting action that would be good trigger for getting a fish to bite.  So tail shape rating is below

Double Wide Wiggle Tail (6" curly tail): slows fall rate best for maintaining a smooth glide over bottom and the slowest sink rate.  So for slowest retrieve possible use this tail.

XXL Wiggle Tail (4" curly tail): almost twice the fall rate of the double tail.  This is best if you need fly to sink much faster and want to maintain a faster retrieve.  I think in fast current I would use this tail size and focus on the large tail for slower current.

XXL Dragon Tail (4.5" specialized curly tail). Fall rate is a little slower than the wiggle tail and when swiming the action is also very different visually.  It was best of a gliding action as well.

XXL Double Tail (4" fin shaped tail): this thing pulsed like a real fish tail swimming.  I was amazed.  It did not slow the fly much on fall rate so I would use this in fast current environments to also give illusion of a fish swimming in daylight.

XXL Slim Wave Tail (5" sluggo shaped tail): This has a very unique darting action and I was very impressed.  I think if fish are in a neutral mood in deep water and I was trying to agitate them to strike this is the tail and presentation I would use.  All the darting and jigging is also rattling a ton since two jig ratlles in the fly so it may also prove to be a great night approach.

 

So very happy with initial results.  I am going to wait to see how live testing on stripers goes before I commit to tying a bunch of these up.  I have learned not to make too many of a prototype without fishing it extensively.  Can end up wasting a lot of fly tying time.

Edited by The Graveyard Shift

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6 hours ago, FishHawk II said:

I think you'll get a lot of short strikes with the fish hitting the tail. Maybe consider putting a stinger hook near the tail. FishHawk

You may be right.  That is why I don't want to make any more until I fish it extensively.  If that short strike problem becomes apparent that would be a key redesign to add a stinger and would also force me to redesign how I am holding the rattles.  I would probaly run wire to the trail hook and the clip for wiggle tail off it like the bauer pike rig.  If I do that I will use Bob P.'s heat shrink tubing trick to add the rattle off the hook below the wire instead of the current ez boddy tail assembly.  I am worried I will get a cow in the gills with a trailer hook so decided to try the single hook first.

 

The areas I fish my surfcasting friends constantly use the 9 inch tsunami sand eel lures.  They rarely get short strikes.  I also did not get many short strikes on the 12" black beast fleye I was using from Andrew last year in the same area.  These are all large fish typically 30 inches or larger that hit.  

 

Definitely a lot of testing needed before I declare this a true success.

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16 hours ago, The Graveyard Shift said:

You may be right.  That is why I don't want to make any more until I fish it extensively.  If that short strike problem becomes apparent that would be a key redesign to add a stinger and would also force me to redesign how I am holding the rattles.  I would probaly run wire to the trail hook and the clip for wiggle tail off it like the bauer pike rig.  If I do that I will use Bob P.'s heat shrink tubing trick to add the rattle off the hook below the wire instead of the current ez boddy tail assembly.  I am worried I will get a cow in the gills with a trailer hook so decided to try the single hook first.

 

The areas I fish my surfcasting friends constantly use the 9 inch tsunami sand eel lures.  They rarely get short strikes.  I also did not get many short strikes on the 12" black beast fleye I was using from Andrew last year in the same area.  These are all large fish typically 30 inches or larger that hit.  

 

Definitely a lot of testing needed before I declare this a true success.

GS,

 

Not sure I'd ever tie up and fish one of these but I certainly give you a lot of credit for trying something new and innovative as my gears are always turning about how to do things differently and hopefully better.

 

Question, for your large flies rather than tie each with a custom tail have you ever tried using the Brine Fly Pulse Disc ?   I bought a kit but honestly never took the time to do much experimenting with them.    I did find a way to make my own Discs that fished just as effectively (fly action) as the one's you buy so for cheap money I could make all I wanted but for some reason I just never followed through.    

 

These are some of the posts I saved about the Pulse Disc.   In one even Bob Pop rates them highly.    Thinking this might be a solution so you don't have to tie individual flies to get action but just apply a Disc in front of any of your large flies to impart additional action and push additional water ahead of the fly.

 

HT

 

 

 

 

Dan,   Also when it comes to those tails, if he still frequents here you should PM  CaptKenRoy as he seems big into this type of fly.     He may be able to offer some insight as to what has worked for him.    I know he was looking for cutting stencils and I mentioned when he found the holy grail design I'd cut one in stainless for him to use as a master.

 

 

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