hydraman

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1 hour ago, CWitek said:

The 1 @ 32" Pledge effort during the Amendment IV debate was a good example of what anglers can accomplish if they all pull together.  It was a classic grassroots movement to conserve a resource, and it helped sway the debate in favor of the striped bass.

 

Unfortunately, pulling people together is a difficult thing to do.  Everyone is on board--in theory.  But when push comes to shove, no one is willing to burn a vacation day to attend a key meeting, and kids' softball games or a good run of fish at Montauk always gets priority.  And never, ever ask someone to contribute the price of just one wooden plug to help an organization function.  And once you do get a few people in the same room, they still won't work together, because the surfcasters don't want to play nice with the fly fishermen, because they run their boats too close to the rocks at Montauk, the people from the West End and East End get into turf wars about how their relative areas will be affected, people with angling-related businesses start trying to warp policies to best benefit their bottom lines, etc.  And no, those aren't exaggerations; they are all things that came up in just one organization I was once affiliated with.  In the end, the question "What's in it for me?" is the only question that matters, with an emphasis on the "ME" rather than on the health of the resource or the good of the striped bass angling community as a whole.

 

That has led me to the belief that groups like 1@32", which was a grassroots response to a particular problem, probably provide a better answer than more formal groups that require a budget and leadership pool to succeed.  Because in the end, anglers will never provide adequate funding, which leads to dependence on industry contributions, which then corrupts the organizations original goals because if the group fails to support the industry, the funding stops and the organization dies. 

 

The successful groups who truly represent anglers' rather than corporate, issues elsewhere on the coast all tend to be single-issue grassroots organizations, with Captains for Clean Water down in Florida perhaps the most successful  They had to form after the major angler group down there avoided full involvement on the water quality issue, apparently out of fear of getting on the wrong side of a governor who was in bed with Big Sugar, but was also giving the anglers group what it wanted with respect to fishery management council appointments, etc.  Save the Tarpon was another  grassroots group that managed to end tarpon snagging in Boca Grande Pass and ultimately killed a big, televised tarpon tournament series that condoned and depended on snagged tarpon to survive, because you had a bunch of dedicated folks willing to contribute whatever time and money it took to get the job done

 

If we can educate anglers to the issues, thanks to sites like this one, and motivate them to come out and speak for themselves, we end up with a group that is far more difficult to subvert, which is, in the end, much more convincing to regulators, because they are speaking honestly for themselves.

 

The downside is that getting people actively engaged is a very difficult thing to do.

I’m starting to change my view on involvement. I used to say i don’t have time or the money. Now I have a growing family and wish I was more involved before. I’m more willing to help organizations with a good cause. Not ones that waist my time. Time is limited that’s an understatement. And that’s the problem with organizing. People are so different and at different stages of life. I feel this makes it difficult to get people together even though we are all passionate about this fishery. 

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27 mins ago, hydraman said:

I’m starting to change my view on involvement. I used to say i don’t have time or the money. Now I have a growing family and wish I was more involved before. I’m more willing to help organizations with a good cause. Not ones that waist my time. Time is limited that’s an understatement. And that’s the problem with organizing. People are so different and at different stages of life. I feel this makes it difficult to get people together even though we are all passionate about this fishery. 

There is no organization.  That is the whole point.  I'll match any donation you make if the organization is solely on the side of recreational anglers and truly support striped bass conservation.

jeffapeikin and hydraman like this

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47 mins ago, rollincoal said:

It is very odd to point out how people don't effectively participate for one reason or another laying the blame solely at their feet and conveniently miss that management is rigged against them with regulators that are not accountable with some in the bag for interests demanding dead fish. Regulators don't need to be "convinced" they need to be forced. 

It’s not odd at all.  If the system is “rigged,” it’s because people allow that to happen.  Regulators are accountable, through the governors of their states.  Appointees are “in the bag” for the black hats because the rest of the folks don’t bother to learn how to get the right folks appointed, and make no effort to do so.  As someone said a long time ago, in the end we get the sort of government that, through our action or inaction, we deserve.

RL Bucktails and jeffapeikin like this

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Just saw this on another  site.  A chance to get involved.......

 

From Ross Squire :

I received some troubling news that Capt. John McMurray had been relieved of his duties as the ASMFC Legislative Proxy for Sen. Boyle. This is a huge blow for conservation minded recreational anglers. NY has three representatives on the ASMFC and John was often the voice of reason and did an incredible job looking out for the health of striped bass and other fisheries. While a charter boat captain himself, John recognizes the importance of maintaining a healthy striped bass fishery. In many, many instances John was the tie-breaking vote that had NY vote for conservation minded regulations.

What we learned is that the NY Recreational & For-Hire Fishing Alliance had a meeting with Senator Boyle and were instrumental in having John removed as the Proxy.

Your help is needed. Having NY’s vote go the way of the commercial and for-hire sector would be very bad for striped bass.

Senator Boyle has agreed to meet with us on Wednesday, October 17th at 7PM at the Babylon Library – 24 Carll Ave, Babylon. The room holds about 25 people. The meeting should not run for more than an hour or two. We held a similar meeting with Senator Boyle a couple of years ago and it was very successful.

Please let me know if you are interested in attending.

THANKS!

Ross Squire
rsquire@aol.com

hydraman likes this

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The system is rigged, votes are in the bag; people should be aware of what the are up against and address management and user groups whose goals are in opposition to conservation appropriately. The situation at hand that needs a response is a fishery going down for a second time with status quo advocates(which includes blaming the public and and diluting any sentiment to break from "the definition of insanity" asking people to be reactive instead of proactive.)

 

The idea of packing the appointees in favor of conservation is ludicrous unless user groups that need dead fish are jettisoned thus removing their votes.

 

People that don't show up do get what they deserve but this doesn't absolve corrupt fisheries management entrusted to manage stocks from responsibility. Personally I'd like to see a crowd show up disrupt the meetings asking for resignations with press coverage and fishing personalities interviewed expressing the collapse of the fishery. It would be nice if we can get some tackle shops(that aren't weighing in fish anymore) and some organization from fishing clubs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Posted (edited) · Report post

8 hours ago, jesgord said:

Just saw this on another  site.  A chance to get involved.......

 

From Ross Squire :

I received some troubling news that Capt. John McMurray had been relieved of his duties as the ASMFC Legislative Proxy for Sen. Boyle. This is a huge blow for conservation minded recreational anglers. NY has three representatives on the ASMFC and John was often the voice of reason and did an incredible job looking out for the health of striped bass and other fisheries. While a charter boat captain himself, John recognizes the importance of maintaining a healthy striped bass fishery. In many, many instances John was the tie-breaking vote that had NY vote for conservation minded regulations.

What we learned is that the NY Recreational & For-Hire Fishing Alliance had a meeting with Senator Boyle and were instrumental in having John removed as the Proxy.

Your help is needed. Having NY’s vote go the way of the commercial and for-hire sector would be very bad for striped bass.

Senator Boyle has agreed to meet with us on Wednesday, October 17th at 7PM at the Babylon Library – 24 Carll Ave, Babylon. The room holds about 25 people. The meeting should not run for more than an hour or two. We held a similar meeting with Senator Boyle a couple of years ago and it was very successful.

Please let me know if you are interested in attending.

THANKS!

Ross Squire
rsquire@aol.com

John was a true supporter of Striped Bass Conservation.

The Recreational Fishing Alliance hated John. 

I asked Jim Donofrio  RFA Exequtive Director, "Did you guys have anything to do with removing John from the ASMFC?"

His Response (unedited):

"We sure did and proud of it!!  He is not a rec he is a greenie. you guys are the disgrace

whats the average rec fishermen? some JO in an Orvis outfit who hates the real average guy like your buddy  Witek does. He is another another wack job internet bully."

 

 

 

 

Edited by Surfratiam

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21 hours ago, rollincoal said:

The system is rigged, votes are in the bag; people should be aware of what the are up against and address management and user groups whose goals are in opposition to conservation appropriately. The situation at hand that needs a response is a fishery going down for a second time with status quo advocates(which includes blaming the public and and diluting any sentiment to break from "the definition of insanity" asking people to be reactive instead of proactive.)

 

The idea of packing the appointees in favor of conservation is ludicrous unless user groups that need dead fish are jettisoned thus removing their votes.

 

People that don't show up do get what they deserve but this doesn't absolve corrupt fisheries management entrusted to manage stocks from responsibility. Personally I'd like to see a crowd show up disrupt the meetings asking for resignations with press coverage and fishing personalities interviewed expressing the collapse of the fishery. It would be nice if we can get some tackle shops(that aren't weighing in fish anymore) and some organization from fishing clubs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

We're all waiting for you to put down your keyboard, pick up your flag and lead the revolution,

 

 

 

 

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30 mins ago, CWitek said:

We're all waiting for you to put down your keyboard, pick up your flag and lead the revolution,

 

 

 

 

Why would a person of your stature waste your time with that kind of post?

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1 min ago, rollincoal said:

Why would a person of your stature waste your time with that kind of post?

Because your negativity can be corrosive.

 

There are problems, but with enough effort, they can be fixed.  All I hear from you are how those of us already in the fight are doing it wrong.

 

Maybe we are.  But if you have a better way, I for one would love to see you get out front show us how we ought to be doing it rather than throwing cold water on the efforts of folks who are at least willing to get out of their chairs and try,.

 

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You are complaining about no one showing up, disparaging organizations and groups of people, and have argued against anything that does fit your view.   

 

Mocking a person’s opinions on a message board and sarcastically suggesting people raise a flag and lead the way isn’t going to work

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Like Charlie said, all you guys talk a good game, but in the end will not show up for meetings and voice your opinion or send some money to those supporting it.  I lived it first hand when the Menhaden Defenders group was out in force trying to have the commercial quote lowered.  The room was filled in NJ with commercial fishermen and their families.  There were four recreational guys in the room.  My three that drove down together and one random guy. It was a meeting at 6pm on a Thursday I believe, at a central and easy to get to location. The next ASMFC meeting is in NYC.  Trust me, you will not be there..

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18 mins ago, 27conch said:

Like Charlie said, all you guys talk a good game, but in the end will not show up for meetings and voice your opinion or send some money to those supporting it.  I lived it first hand when the Menhaden Defenders group was out in force trying to have the commercial quote lowered.  The room was filled in NJ with commercial fishermen and their families.  There were four recreational guys in the room.  My three that drove down together and one random guy. It was a meeting at 6pm on a Thursday I believe, at a central and easy to get to location. The next ASMFC meeting is in NYC.  Trust me, you will not be there..

People apparently don’t show and I don’t hear really hear many people get fired up to begin with.

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This stuff get guys upset and all you gentlemen have good points. It seems like a lot of underhand things are going on. And that these meeting a lot of times are not broadcast. I see why the commercial guys and family’s would show up it’s how they make a living. But again We have so many more rec fishermen and the money that we put into this fishing community is substantial. It’s just crazy that even the few organizations that are out can’t even see eye to eye. It’s true arguing on a fishing board won’t get us or you guys anyplace that’s good. I hope one day we can take this fight as a group to these supposid leaders of conservation. To me what they are doing is not working to the least bit. Ask anyone that’s been fishing the last 20 years or more. Do we have more fish? Is the fishing good? In my opinion bass and all the fish belong to the people. That’s coms and recs but if we have no fish we are all f-Ed in the end. You guys are way smarter than me. But it don’t take a smart man to realize we have less fish. 

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