hydraman

Crazy

Rate this topic

201 posts in this topic

3 mins ago, runnsfromcops said:

@CWITEK do you have any plans to write about some of the other issues on deck at the ASMFC meeting in NYC later this month? Aside from a review of Lee Zeldin’s proposal, there also looks like there’s a stock assessment update for SB. i’m guessing this is related to lowering the biomass threshold and target reference points you mentioned. 

 

Just from looking at the agenda, it looks there’s also the Atlantic Herring benchmark assessment and the fishery management plan for blackfish. A lot of this procedural stuff is easy to misread or gloss over, so I appreciate you breaking it down for the layman to understand. 

 

Agree with the post above that there really is no central recreational voice to counter the “recs” that represent the for-hire / party boat industry. I see John McMurray is attempting to organize since he was removed from the ASMFC proxy post (“We felt the vast majority of recreational fishermen, and the for hire industry were not being accurately represented, and that a change was absolutely necessary.” as per the NYRFHA site). I don’t know anything about his replacement Mike Falk, but I also don’t feel the rec/for-hire industry accurately voices the opinions/wants of a lot of us here on this site. 

i would agree that small scale for hires want the same as the recreational crowd (6 pass, fly fisherman, surf guides) then you have the other "rec" side which is Party Boats and they tend to be of the mindset of commercials ( gimmie more, more, more)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Cpalms said:

 

Huh? why? 

 

It's exactly the right idea.

We should be proactive instead of reactive.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We should focus on making our own demands representing conservative management goals; though we shouldn't give up fish so that others can claim them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 mins ago, rollincoal said:

We should be proactive instead of reactive.

Man we have so many guys on this site alone. If we could just organize the guys on sol we could make some noice. I would be all about joining a bunch of you to go to these meetings or appointing someone like Tim let’s say. This place is great and it’s the only reason I own a phone and to get pictures of my kids. But if we could just get the guys from this site it would be hard for them not to listen. I’m sure if people saw something like this happening they would join also. I’m just throwing stuff out I don’t know if something like this is truly feasible. But hey anything is possible. If we keep going like this we won’t have any fish in 20 years and I’m not willing to accept this. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The management goals of those seeking to conserve fish are in opposition to other user groups that value the fishery in terms of dead fish; we should acknowledge that and consider that the management philosophy basically seeks to push for dead fish.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 mins ago, hydraman said:

Man we have so many guys on this site alone. If we could just organize the guys on sol we could make some noice. I would be all about joining a bunch of you to go to these meetings or appointing someone like Tim let’s say. This place is great and it’s the only reason I own a phone and to get pictures of my kids. But if we could just get the guys from this site it would be hard for them not to listen. I’m sure if people saw something like this happening they would join also. I’m just throwing stuff out I don’t know if something like this is truly feasible. But hey anything is possible. If we keep going like this we won’t have any fish in 20 years and I’m not willing to accept this. 

I believe we have to show up and "figuratively" turn over some tables if we are going to achieve what is necessary, no different than a board of education meeting, by the time the public has its say it is already a done deal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited) · Report post

42 mins ago, Sandflee said:

i would agree that small scale for hires want the same as the recreational crowd (6 pass, fly fisherman, surf guides) then you have the other "rec" side which is Party Boats and they tend to be of the mindset of commercials ( gimmie more, more, more)

6 Pack and Party boats (and in most cases commercial fisherman) are on one side and everybody else on the other.  If you need anymore proof just have a gander at the members at the link below - 6 packs right alongside party boats.  Lots of these guys also hold NY commercial tags.  There is no more influential group on how striped bass are managed in NY than Montauk Boatman's Association.  They never saw a striped bass regulation that they agreed with.  There is no equivalent of Montauk Boatman's for recreational fisherman unfortunately.

 

[ Montauk Captain's link removed.  Cpalms, anyone who wants to see it will have to find it without a link here.  BrianBM]

 

The single worst offenders of killing big breeder striped bass are 6 pack (particularly wire line) boats out of Montauk.  They want to slaughter everything that swims.

Edited by BrianBM
link to commercial site

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 mins ago, rollincoal said:

I believe we have to show up and "figuratively" turn over some tables if we are going to achieve what is necessary, no different than a board of education meeting, by the time the public has its say it is already a done deal.

So true man but sometimes people get wind and people freak. In the end the board have to change the decision. I’ve seen this before. You are totally right about the table turning sir. In the end we are the bulk of the fishing community and put the most money back into the economy. We should have the strongest voice.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, Sandflee said:

If the ASMFC need to hear from the for hire crowd and bend over to their demands in order to gauge the current fishery they live in a bubble

They just respond to the people who show up. 

 

Blackfish was a classic example.  The for-hires in New York and Connecticut came out in droves to oppose the Technical Committee's recommendations with respect to harvest reductions.  There was virtually no comment from the other side.  So now overfishing will be allowed to continue in Long Island Sound until 2029.

 

I'm was watching the news this morning, and there was a piece that noted the fact that milllenials are the largest single voting block, but vote in low numbers, while about 85% of people over 65 are likely voters.  The narrator noted that such fact means that political policies are skewed toward the old folks rather than the younger, and noted that "In a democracy, policy is made by those who show up."

 

Fisheries work the same way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, runnsfromcops said:

@CWITEK do you have any plans to write about some of the other issues on deck at the ASMFC meeting in NYC later this month? Aside from a review of Lee Zeldin’s proposal, there also looks like there’s a stock assessment update for SB. i’m guessing this is related to lowering the biomass threshold and target reference points you mentioned. 

 

Just from looking at the agenda, it looks there’s also the Atlantic Herring benchmark assessment and the fishery management plan for blackfish. A lot of this procedural stuff is easy to misread or gloss over, so I appreciate you breaking it down for the layman to understand. 

 

Agree with the post above that there really is no central recreational voice to counter the “recs” that represent the for-hire / party boat industry. I see John McMurray is attempting to organize since he was removed from the ASMFC proxy post (“We felt the vast majority of recreational fishermen, and the for hire industry were not being accurately represented, and that a change was absolutely necessary.” as per the NYRFHA site). I don’t know anything about his replacement Mike Falk, but I also don’t feel the rec/for-hire industry accurately voices the opinions/wants of a lot of us here on this site. 

I can if people would like to read it.  A lot of those issues aren't "ripe," in that no final decisions will be made, but if folks are interested, I can discuss.  I'll start a separate thread.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/9/2018 at 0:41 AM, The Fishing Nerd said:

...............We're going to need tighter limits quickly or I'm going to have to start learning how to water ski.

 

Water skiing is all fun and games till you hit about 50, then it's murder on your lower back.

 

Ask me how I know.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, hydraman said:

Man we have so many guys on this site alone. If we could just organize the guys on sol we could make some noice. I would be all about joining a bunch of you to go to these meetings or appointing someone like Tim let’s say. This place is great and it’s the only reason I own a phone and to get pictures of my kids. But if we could just get the guys from this site it would be hard for them not to listen. I’m sure if people saw something like this happening they would join also. I’m just throwing stuff out I don’t know if something like this is truly feasible. But hey anything is possible. If we keep going like this we won’t have any fish in 20 years and I’m not willing to accept this. 

The 1 @ 32" Pledge effort during the Amendment IV debate was a good example of what anglers can accomplish if they all pull together.  It was a classic grassroots movement to conserve a resource, and it helped sway the debate in favor of the striped bass.

 

Unfortunately, pulling people together is a difficult thing to do.  Everyone is on board--in theory.  But when push comes to shove, no one is willing to burn a vacation day to attend a key meeting, and kids' softball games or a good run of fish at Montauk always gets priority.  And never, ever ask someone to contribute the price of just one wooden plug to help an organization function.  And once you do get a few people in the same room, they still won't work together, because the surfcasters don't want to play nice with the fly fishermen, because they run their boats too close to the rocks at Montauk, the people from the West End and East End get into turf wars about how their relative areas will be affected, people with angling-related businesses start trying to warp policies to best benefit their bottom lines, etc.  And no, those aren't exaggerations; they are all things that came up in just one organization I was once affiliated with.  In the end, the question "What's in it for me?" is the only question that matters, with an emphasis on the "ME" rather than on the health of the resource or the good of the striped bass angling community as a whole.

 

That has led me to the belief that groups like 1@32", which was a grassroots response to a particular problem, probably provide a better answer than more formal groups that require a budget and leadership pool to succeed.  Because in the end, anglers will never provide adequate funding, which leads to dependence on industry contributions, which then corrupts the organizations original goals because if the group fails to support the industry, the funding stops and the organization dies. 

 

The successful groups who truly represent anglers' rather than corporate, issues elsewhere on the coast all tend to be single-issue grassroots organizations, with Captains for Clean Water down in Florida perhaps the most successful  They had to form after the major angler group down there avoided full involvement on the water quality issue, apparently out of fear of getting on the wrong side of a governor who was in bed with Big Sugar, but was also giving the anglers group what it wanted with respect to fishery management council appointments, etc.  Save the Tarpon was another  grassroots group that managed to end tarpon snagging in Boca Grande Pass and ultimately killed a big, televised tarpon tournament series that condoned and depended on snagged tarpon to survive, because you had a bunch of dedicated folks willing to contribute whatever time and money it took to get the job done

 

If we can educate anglers to the issues, thanks to sites like this one, and motivate them to come out and speak for themselves, we end up with a group that is far more difficult to subvert, which is, in the end, much more convincing to regulators, because they are speaking honestly for themselves.

 

The downside is that getting people actively engaged is a very difficult thing to do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There was an article in Newsday today about fishing and water based tourism and how the Town of Babylon, the ASFMC and some other state agencies are working together to increase the numbers.  Almost all the recommendations were based around the charter industry; improving boats, rehabbing docks/marinas, advertising and marketing, increasing consumption of local caught (which is a double edged sword), and I'm sure loosening regs will somehow get tacked in there. All in order to get millenial$ on the boats, nothing about increasing shoreline access, lowering permit costs, education, or anything that would benefit anyone but fares.

I just thought they were strange bed mates.

 

Just wait until those stupid blue tourism signs on the roads are plastered on every channel marker and buoy from J-bay to Mtk.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is very odd to point out how people don't effectively participate for one reason or another laying the blame solely at their feet and conveniently miss that management is rigged against them with regulators that are not accountable with some in the bag for interests demanding dead fish. Regulators don't need to be "convinced" they need to be forced. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, hydraman said:

...sometimes people get wind and people freak. In the end the board have to change the decision. I’ve seen this before...

Exactly right on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to register here in order to participate.

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.