kross57

The Hobie Vantage seat and what's wrong with it

89 posts in this topic

OK. Here goes.

 

Let's say the design folks at Dell computer come up with a new keyboard which has added functionality. They believe it is a slam dunk. So they start offering it with their latest computers, and create software in these computers to make use of it.

 

What they do NOT do is remove the older software that allows you to use a standard keyboard. This way if you just don't care for the new keyboard for whatever reason, you don't have to use it. Everyone dances.

 

Switch over to Hobie. The design folks there come up with the Vantage seat. Again, they think this is a slam dunk. But what the design folks do is change all their kayaks so that they can ONLY use the Vantage seat. Folks that do not like it are forced to come up with some kind of crazy work-around, or accept it. When they complain, they are not told "Whoops! I'll have the design folks look into it." Nope. They are told "Everyone loves the new seat." *

 

 

Folks, it doesn't matter why (or if) you don't like the seat. Making things so they are incompatible with older technology is foolish. Especially when it didn't have to be so.  Maybe over time you make the switch, when you are certain it is universally accepted, but certainly not as an initial offering.

 

       

Edited by TimS
I know you know that we don’t drag crap from other sites here because you were involved in a previous discussion about it - please don’t do it again...thanks

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We don’t want crap dragged here from other forums - you know this. Do you realize in your thread titled “and what’s wrong with it” you don’t mention ONE single feature, positive or negative? That means your entire post was nothing but a segue to complaining about what happened on another website. Negative rants without an ounce of first hand experience or even a mention of the specific feature to which you object are nothing but product/company bashing. We don’t allow that here. You’ll need to find another venue from which to continue your personal vendetta against Hobie. 

 

If you want to have discussions here, you are more than welcome, but the bashing of a company or products is not allowed. You can share your first hand experiences, provided they are presented in a respectful, discussion oriented manner. Vendettas are not allowed. Product bashing campaigns are not welcome. Dragging crap from other sites here is not welcome. This isn’t a bully platform, it’s a discussion forum, please use it as such. Thanks :th:

 

TimS

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More and more people are buying the vantage seat fabric replacement kit because the seat is ripping.  That is 150 bucks for the kit. Some of these anglers weigh tops 150lbs  soaking wet. 

 

Some have had the tears 3 months after owning.  Some happened after the 2 year warranty. 

 

 

 

 

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Edited by The Riddler

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1 hour ago, TimS said:

We don’t want crap dragged here from other forums - you know this. Do you realize in your thread titled “and what’s wrong with it” you don’t mention ONE single feature, positive or negative? That means your entire post was nothing but a segue to complaining about what happened on another website. Negative rants without an ounce of first hand experience or even a mention of the specific feature to which you object are nothing but product/company bashing. We don’t allow that here. You’ll need to find another venue from which to continue your personal vendetta against Hobie. 

 

If you want to have discussions here, you are more than welcome, but the bashing of a company or products is not allowed. You can share your first hand experiences, provided they are presented in a respectful, discussion oriented manner. Vendettas are not allowed. Product bashing campaigns are not welcome. Dragging crap from other sites here is not welcome. This isn’t a bully platform, it’s a discussion forum, please use it as such. Thanks :th:

 

TimS

I don't think you understand what I'm getting at. I see you removed something from my post but I'm not even sure what it was. I'm guessing it was some reference to another site. It certainly wasn't important. The basic idea is that the newer kayaks aren't compatible with the old seats. And a fair amount of people liked the old seats. In a lot of products you see new components, but the older components are still compatible. As far as these new-fangled kayak seats, it isn't even just Hobie that has made this mistake. Ocean Kayak, for example, did the same thing.

 

So, the point has nothing to do with the features of the new seat or the old seat. Why would I mention them?  It's about the benefits of maintaining compatability as you modify products. If that isn't a fair basis for discussion, I'm not sure what is.     

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19 mins ago, kross57 said:

I don't think you understand what I'm getting at. I see you removed something from my post but I'm not even sure what it was. I'm guessing it was some reference to another site. It certainly wasn't important. The basic idea is that the newer kayaks aren't compatible with the old seats. And a fair amount of people liked the old seats. In a lot of products you see new components, but the older components are still compatible. As far as these new-fangled kayak seats, it isn't even just Hobie that has made this mistake. Ocean Kayak, for example, did the same thing.

 

So, the point has nothing to do with the features of the new seat or the old seat. Why would I mention them?  It's about the benefits of maintaining compatability as you modify products. If that isn't a fair basis for discussion, I'm not sure what is.     

What I removed was about another site - if it wasn’t important - and you know we don’t want it here - why write it?

 

So the features of the new seat you don’t like are that the new kayaks won’t let you use the old seat? How can anyone discuss the features of the new seat - when your objection has nothing to do with the seat itself? It sure reads like more personal vendetta about something that happened on a different site. Have you actually purchased this new kayak with the new seat? What specifically did you not like about this new seat? That would be a discussion...share with us your experience with the new seat and ask other folks how they liked it or didn’t like it and why. That’s a discussion. 

 

For a thread titled ‘Hobie Vantage Seat and what’s wrong with it’ I haven’t seen you make one, single comment about the actual seat - zero. You get why that’s weird, right? Share your experience, start a discussion and let’s move on from your vendetta :)

 

TimS

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Two years on the vantage seat.  No issues.  And love it!   I have some experience with older model seats and definitely much prefer the vantage seat.   

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1 hour ago, TimS said:

What I removed was about another site - if it wasn’t important - and you know we don’t want it here - why write it?

 

So the features of the new seat you don’t like are that the new kayaks won’t let you use the old seat? How can anyone discuss the features of the new seat - when your objection has nothing to do with the seat itself? It sure reads like more personal vendetta about something that happened on a different site. Have you actually purchased this new kayak with the new seat? What specifically did you not like about this new seat? That would be a discussion...share with us your experience with the new seat and ask other folks how they liked it or didn’t like it and why. That’s a discussion. 

 

For a thread titled ‘Hobie Vantage Seat and what’s wrong with it’ I haven’t seen you make one, single comment about the actual seat - zero. You get why that’s weird, right? Share your experience, start a discussion and let’s move on from your vendetta :)

 

TimS

Nope. You still don't get it.

 

The concern I have with the new seat is the basic design. It has a rigid seat back which is not good for surf launching. And it was raised, so it reduces stability. This is pretty basic. I didn't bother to discuss this because it would be pointless since these features have been discussed here a lot already, and many people like the new seat for their particular use, which may be quite a bit different from mine. But that is not really the core of this discussion.

 

The new kayaks are designed in such a way that you can only use this seat. In the past kayaks would accept a whole range of seats. Not anymore. So if you have issues with the seat, too bad, you're stuck with it. It's like buying a fishing rod that will only accept one reel. Do you take issue with the reel, or the rod? Either way, you would think that would be a hot topic for debate. I don't see it as weird at all. 


To face these issues you can go about it in one of two ways. Either modify the seat, which would only please some people, and displease others, or modify the kayak so it wil accept both the new and old seats. I choose option B. That's my point. I'm sorry if the thread title didn't spell that out. But what's the biggie?  Is there a new rule about thread titles? 

 

As far as buying it first, why would I purchase a kayak that forced me to use a seat I don't want or like? Can we only discuss things we own?

 

As I said, it is isn't even limited to one company. So, this isn't a vendetta, Why are you characterizing it as one? Is there something going on here? :)

 

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Guys, I get that a lot of people like the new seat. From what I hear its very comfortable. That's not my point. It's that you should be able to choose. That point tends to get lost if we are just debating the pros and cons of a new seat design. In the past there were all kinds of seats available and they were interchangeable. High back, low back, heavy padding, inflatable, and on and on. That was great. 

 

So, it would have been way better if you could change these new seats out for a standard kayak seat. The modifications that make this difficult were not smart. 

Edited by kross57

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32 mins ago, capri_auto said:

Why don't you just get a lightly used older model? You pay less than half price and get the kayak you want... win win.

Yes, but no warranty. And with my recent kayak hull failure, that's important to me. 

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I like the seat. Do I LOVE it, no, I just like it. I've been in enough sloppy conditions/surf launches with it to know it's a non-issue for me. TBD on how it'll handle a good ol' fashion smash in the surf. It'll happen sooner or later... i'm overdue for one. But at least I have a spare.

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6 mins ago, kross57 said:

Yes, but no warranty. And with my recent kayak hull failure, that's important to me. 

Eh I guess, but I would always buy used esp. if you prefer the older models. I'm in a 2013 revo 13 for 750 bones, rigged. is the warranty worth 2,000 bucks?

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1 hour ago, Jon I said:

I like the seat. Do I LOVE it, no, I just like it. I've been in enough sloppy conditions/surf launches with it to know it's a non-issue for me. TBD on how it'll handle a good ol' fashion smash in the surf. It'll happen sooner or later... i'm overdue for one. But at least I have a spare.

Yeah, that's what worries me, Jon.  A good old fashioned wipe out. If the seat was cheap, no worries. But that's a pricey replacement.  

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